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Pax
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Then why hasnt it happened anywhere else in Iraq??? |
It does not matter why it has not happened elsewhere in Iraq. It's happening in Iraq.
When there was rioting in LA it was a symptom of the problems effecting the whole U.S.
It also shows that enough Iraqi's have a strong enough opinion about the U.S. to take up arms to do something about it.
Mutililation and torture is not something that western societies have not been guilty of in the past century. Why do we hold the Iraqi's to a higher standard?
Why do so many on this site not see that the "insurgent/Terrorist" might see himself in the role of a Patriot to his people?
Also, what methods do you think the Iraqi's can successfully use to fight back?
Prior to the beginning of this war Top military officials were given a viewing of the movie "The battle of algiers" They were told to expect something along the lines of the occurences in that movie. So far this is what we're seeing.
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:35
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I knew this was going to happen. America can win a war fast and with less manpower. But occup is the hard part which take alots of manpower. The NYCPD have maintrain 40000 men police force fo the last 50 years. Hight tech police would mean less police manpower. But there is another part of Police work have enought man walking than beat in certain area can stop criminal actically from takeing place. The financal part of NYC Wall Street on the weekday afew hundred policeman walking around to maintrain security in the area.
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
You shut up. I made a point that not only americans were getting killed, but Iraqis were too. And I'm not talking about just this incident. You maybe you should get into a reading comprehension course?
Same here. You do not have anything of any intelligence to say. |
At the risk of getting involved with you fez (its a first for me..., yes im a fez-virgin) let me say this :
Trying to be as objective as possible, I reread the firsts posts a few time and it seems everybody was talking to the particular incident in regards to the nationality of the victims...
So in this regards, Gepap is right...
Of course you have the right to talk about anything you want, but if you dont mention youre changins subject, laughs are expected...
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CharlesBHoff
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el paso texas
May 2002
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DataAeolus
I only have this to say: Those folks should be thankful that Americans are not using tactics Nazis did whenever one of their own was killed in an occupied country especially in France. |
It didnot work for the Nazi anyway then and not work for USA.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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It's war, people die, besides, these guys were mercenaries. They chose to be there.
I read an interesting story where a reporter spent some time with these "contractors". For security reasons, when they need to gas up their cars, they'll speed into a gas station and basically take it over by pulling out their guns. The iraqis waiting in line can do nothing, but fume.
The reporter talks about how they're sitting ducks while re-fuelling, but also how they create hatred among the Iraqis.
No wonder the Iraqis were celebrating.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Since when does contractor necessarialy mean merc? |
These "contractors" worked for Blackwater Security proviidng "security training and guard service" which means a private army. The people hired by these security firms are extremely well paid US$100-200K per year and almost always have served in special forces units.
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Guardian
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Bergen, Norway
Feb 2001
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DataAeolus
I only have this to say: Those folks should be thankful that Americans are not using tactics Nazis did whenever one of their own was killed in an occupied country especially in France. |
When the nazis occupied a village, they would put up lists naming local residents who were designated "hostages". They would then announce penalties for various acts of resistance, and the hostages would pay the price if someone resisted anyway.
For instance, if someone was caught attempting to sabotage "German property", they would shoot 3 hostages.
If the sabotage was successful and "German property" was destroyed, they would shoot 6 hostages.
If a German soldier was injured, they would shoot 10 hostages.
If a German soldier was killed, they would shoot 20 hostages.
In the larger cities, they wouldn't bother to make lists. Instead, when they felt they needed to punish the resistance for something, the Gestapo or the SS would suddenly appear out of nowhere, cordon off a street or two, round up a bunch of people who just happened to be in the area and kill them all.
Even with this kind of tactics, the nazis never succeded in putting down the resistance in the coutries they occupied.
They were actually a lot nicer in Denmark and Norway, but our people never stopped resisting either.
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The Mad Viking
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of the Great White North
Feb 2000
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Indeed it is different, as it serves a purpose. In the case of a crime, it can lead to arrest the killer. In the case of a disease outbreak, it can help to find anf fight the disease. In the case of autopsies for medicine students, it helps them become better doctors, with a better understanding of the human body.
Yes, it is very different from mutilating a body in order to humiliate and to be overjoyed  |
All purposes that are subjective values.
Who cares? The death was the will of God, and you are desecrating the body, which is an affront to God.
I don't personally agree, but I can understand that there are people who do.
If you look at the reaction to the mutilation, and consider that was the intent, I think you have a hard time suggesting that it did not serve a purpose.
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Tripledoc
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Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Fallujah - A Shooting Too Far?
by Felicity Arbuthnot
The shooting of protesters outside a school at Fallujah, approximately 30 miles west of Baghdad - where US troops were apparently billeted - by US troops reportedly from the 1st Battalion of 325th Airborne Infantry Division of the 82nd Airborne Division, may be an outrage too far and return to haunt the US and UK troops. Iraq is a country where historical memory is immediate and like Ireland, perceived or actual injustices never fade.
Out of a crowd of two hundred, it seems seventy five were injured and thirteen to fifteen killed - nearly half maimed or dead.
Fallujah was seized by the British under General Stanley Maude on 19th March 1917. He is buried in Baghdad's Rashid Cemetery. More recently Fallujah was provided by the UK, in the 1980's with a fourteen million £ chemical factory to produce chlorine and phenol, named the Tariq plant. The deal was allegedly concealed from Parliament by the then Trade Minister, Sir Paul Channon.
When the Gulf war disrupted production at the Fallujah plant, Iraq successfully claimed three hundred thousand pounds compensation from the UK government"s Export Credit Guarantee Department. However, later Tariq became subject of UN weapons Inspector"s (UNSCOM) scrutiny and accused of producing chemical weapons, was destroyed.
Fallujah is seared into Iraq's collective psyche as completely as the attack on the Ameriyah civilian air raid shelter, bombed by US planes during the Gulf war. Also in 1991, the market in Fallujah was bombed, reportedly by US planes flying very low. Other reports say the UK planes were also involved. When residents ran to help the injured and seek the dead, in a familiar pattern, the planes returned and bombed the rescuers.
Former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark visited shortly after and reported at least two hundred civilian deaths and a stunning five hundred injured.
The attacks also leveled an Egyptian owned hotel and a row of modern, concrete five and six story apartments with a further (estimated at the time) two hundred dead. Military spokespersons later said they were aiming for a bridge, but Human Rights Watch reported that: "All buildings for four hundred meters on either side of the street - houses and market, were flattened."
"The term 'collateral damage' is inapplicable", says Ramsey Clark, pointing out that the attacks were in broad daylight, when much of the area would have been at its most populated. He states that attacks on civilians were stated by the military (then as now) were to "demoralize".
To visit Fallujah is to be shamed - and stoned. The only place in Iraq I have ever experienced hostility. It is a hostility easy to understand. A tour of the re-established market - or anywhere else, reveals traders with amputated limbs who survived the attack - and not a person, seemingly, who has not lost one or more of their family.
The Tariq plant at Fallujah was one of the stated reasons for the slaughter and invasion of Gulf War Two. "Iraq had embedded key portions of its chemical weapons infrastructure" Colin Powell is reported as saying, with Prime Minister Blair faithfully repeating the allegation last Autumn. (How they love that "embedded" word, does the Pentagon/State Department not have a Thesaurus?)
I visited the plant in 1999 and another cited chemical weapon plant at Al Doura in a suburb of Baghdad. Both had been completely trashed by UNSCOM. Days before Colin Powell and Tony Blair made their allegation, Count Hans von Sponeck, a former UN Assistant Secretary General and UN Co-ordinator in Iraq, visited both plants with a crew from German state television. He told this writer: "They are in the same trashed state as when you and I visited in 1999. There is one difference: the undergrowth is higher."
"Hearts and minds" are being lost in Iraq with stunning speed. This further slaughter by an unwelcome, invading force, of a "liberated" crowd, may, I predict, mark the beginning of the end for the "coalition." "They stole our oil, now they are killing our people', said one grieving relative.
Writing this, I remembered the word on the street in Iraq, when I was there little over a month ago. It was encapsulated by a western educated Iraqi graduate of the Sorbonne, an intellectual who speaks numerous languages, a true international. "Let them come", she said "we have been burying invaders for centuries - and we have plenty of spaces next to General Maude."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0429-11.htm
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01-04-2004 02:53
before telling people who know history better than you what we have or havent learned. 
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