03-04-2004 09:21									#121
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quote: But what if God sent another prophet, and yet again changed what was "right"? Say, now God thought that heterosexual sex was a sin?

I want more mocking condesension and idiotic questions like this one. It isn't sporting for one side to monopolize talent like this.

	03-04-2004 10:07									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Abraham believed that God would intervene and offer something else for sacrifice.

Where does it say that in the bible?

	03-04-2004 10:14									#123
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Thanks, Spencer -- so God commanded Abraham to stop the planned sacrifice of his son. Thus, God would condemn anyone who would kill their own children and in turn, means that it IS immoral to kill your own children, even if you thought God was telling you to do this.

Sorry, but you are completely off. Abraham would have killed his son if God did not intervene, why should this woman be held differently, according to the bible?

	03-04-2004 10:42									#124
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Good Lord! You read that exerpt from genesis and came up with that interpretation! I foresee a great future for you in (liberal) politics.

What's wrong with the interpretation?

	03-04-2004 16:06									#125
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I'm sure all the video game people are out calling for a ban on God.

	03-04-2004 20:03									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sorry, but you are completely off. Abraham would have killed his son if God did not intervene, why should this woman be held differently, according to the bible?

I thought the point was, according to the new testament, you didn't have to be tested like this to show your love and faith in god, you put everything into Jesus as your savior. thus any voices inside your head are either the product of dementia or.....Satan

	03-04-2004 22:48									#127
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Anyone demanding that someone kill their child (even if they plan to stop them at the last moment) as proof of loyalty is a sick f***. That sounds more like something Caligula would do.

	03-04-2004 22:50									#128
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi I'm sure all the video game people are out calling for a ban on God.

Ban Ming! Are you insane?

	03-04-2004 22:50									#129
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Well duh -- I think we can all agree with that, gamenaught.

But to make such a grossly unfair, bigoted generalization that this must be the mindset of all faithful religious people is just plain wrong.

	04-04-2004 00:20									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sorry, but you are completely off. Abraham would have killed his son if God did not intervene, why should this woman be held differently, according to the bible?

Abraham was ostensibly actually told in no uncertain terms to sacrifice his son. According to the story posted, this woman saw her kids abusing animals or something and interpreted it as, "God wants me to kill my kids." Not a voice from heaven, not a burning bush, just a lot of weird coincidences that she added up to a divine command by some unknown leap of intuition. The woman is plainly nuts. And yes, I know, she "sincerely believed God was telling her to kill her kids, so she did it." But the fact that she thought God was telling her to kill the kids at all based on what she saw shows that she was severely diminished in terms of mental faculties. We're not talking about a rational decision here, but the tangled chain of ideas followed by a lunatic. There's a distinction.

	04-04-2004 00:21									#131
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quote: Well duh -- I think we can all agree with that, gamenaught.

It seems some people don't have a problem with it.

quote: But to make such a grossly unfair, bigoted generalization that this must be the mindset of all faithful religious people is just plain wrong.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that but, to clarify, by "anyone" I wasn't saying that everyone must hold that same opinion. I was referring to the God, mafia boss, war lord, dictator, or whatever that would demand their followers to sacrifice their kids.

	04-04-2004 10:10									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Abraham was ostensibly actually told in no uncertain terms to sacrifice his son. According to the story posted, this woman saw her kids abusing animals or something and interpreted it as, "God wants me to kill my kids." Not a voice from heaven, not a burning bush, just a lot of weird coincidences that she added up to a divine command by some unknown leap of intuition. The woman is plainly nuts. And yes, I know, she "sincerely believed God was telling her to kill her kids, so she did it." But the fact that she thought God was telling her to kill the kids at all based on what she saw shows that she was severely diminished in terms of mental faculties. We're not talking about a rational decision here, but the tangled chain of ideas followed by a lunatic. There's a distinction.

So a voice in your head telling you to kill your son makes you sane while this woman is a lunatic how?

	04-04-2004 16:52									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So a voice in your head telling you to kill your son makes you sane while this woman is a lunatic how?

Bad troll! Bad! No biscuit!

Seriously, a voice in one's head is a voice in one's head; assuming there is a god, instructions from Him might very well take that form. Instructions from God would probably not take the form of marking a kid to die by having him play with a toy spear and squeeze a frog, unless God happens to be a seriously stoned beatnik performance artist.

	04-04-2004 21:29									#134
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Perhaps already posted but_ the jury aquited her of the murder due to an affirmative defense of insanity. She will now be sent to psychiatric facility.

	05-04-2004 10:29									#135
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I've read about some form of schizophrenia which displays quite exactly the symptom of "hearing voices" who command to do something. Her problem might be this mental disease (which is definitely a matter of psychologists and not a jury). If so, she probably would have killed her kids anyway. As a non-religious person she would have ascribed the voices to ghosts or so, commanding the same thing. It has nothing to do with religion, and much with psychology.

	05-04-2004 10:42									#136
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quote: Seriously though, for the religionists, did she do the right thing? If you heard a voice in your head that you sincerely believe was God telling you to kill your kids, would you do it? Which gets priority..your kids..or God? How do you tell the difference between a voice in your head and God? After all, it wouldn't be the first time God has ordered his followers to kill innocent people.

I think god would take precendence over a human. Aslong as she was completely sure beyond a doubt in her mind(in reality being crazy) then yes, she acted correctly.

	07-04-2004 13:36									#137
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quote: Where does it say that in the bible?

Go read the thread where they cited the quote from Genesis.

Or go look it up for yourself.

Just be careful not to burn your fingertips.

	07-04-2004 17:21									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Elok Seriously, a voice in one's head is a voice in one's head; assuming there is a god, instructions from Him might very well take that form. Instructions from God would probably not take the form of marking a kid to die by having him play with a toy spear and squeeze a frog, unless God happens to be a seriously stoned beatnik performance artist.

So what about Son of Sam, or all those folks who have heard voices in their head telling them to do naughty, nasty things? Are they somehow more sane and rational than this woman?

I think you're assumption that if there is a god, his instructions would be in any particular form and not another are rather unfounded, given that even in the Bible he uses other means of giving signs to people. I'm not sure what distinguishes this woman's hallucinations from many of those.

re "religionist": Actually, I think I used this term before curtsibling. I never saw it as a negative connotation. What's negative about it? It's simply a shorter way of saying "religious person," which can get cumbersome to type. It's also accurate, as it just means someone who practices religion in some form.

	07-04-2004 17:30									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Go read the thread where they cited the quote from Genesis. Or go look it up for yourself. Just be careful not to burn your fingertips.

You made the claim he said it, why don't you just post the verse where he says it? I can't find any such reference in Gen 22. Unless you're referring to Abraham's snarky little lie to Isaac about God providing a lamb:

22:7
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

22:8
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

That's not Abraham hoping God will substitute another sacrifice, that's him making a little lie to his son so he won't have to tell Isaac that he is the sacrifice.