08-04-2004 17:02									#1
	Are you happy with the demise or Radio? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Simple, really. I'm just doing an unscientific poll to see how happy people are with the removal of the Radio tech.

	09-04-2004 09:04									#2
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I'm indifferent.

Although, I do prefer my suit-wearing chimp w/o spam!!!

Damn, it's a tough choice.

	09-04-2004 11:35									#3
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Well, it saves having to research an essentially useless tech, so I'm fine with it.

However, I'm a little annoyed that the various requests in different places (mine and other people's) for an explanation of why Firaxis felt it necessary to remove the tech, have met with no response.

	09-04-2004 12:09									#4
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I'm pretty much ambivalent. I always thought of it as a dead end tech since it only gave radar towers which is something I rarely if ever use anyway.

I imagine the primary reason they removed it was because of the addition of ironclads and fascism to the industrial age. They removed the non-essential radio tech to make up for that so the age wouldn't be too crowded.

	09-04-2004 12:25									#5
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Am I happy... ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Gee, this only barely scratches the surface and the shortcomings are whole lot more than some simple itch.

I reclassified Radar, towers to wit; as a special leader quality, as is already with Armies. So I had long ago moved it back to the first row of techs in the Ancient Age.

I thought the concept was under used and badly timed. But why did they pick on this little tidbit 'here and now' wilst leave so much else in some woe begotten trash heap?

I think there is a serious 'lack' of play-testing at Firaxis and with that they desperately need a few fanatics on board in 'some' compacity. If only to shut us up. And I note we are working for free around here. What better bargains can there be?

You need another choice... Something close to dismayed, disgruntled and waning confidence that Firaxis even has a clue on how to conduct business.

	09-04-2004 12:28									#6
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Oh and by the way I am now 'Prince' for all this mayhem. Now I guess I'm gonna go see if I can locate some princely powers and use them adroitly well forthwith!!

	09-04-2004 13:10									#7
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Didn't give me any more powers Antrine....I still suck at this game!

	09-04-2004 14:21									#8
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Well it's an ok change, but what makes it exasperating is all the other things that really needed that time spent on them.

	09-04-2004 15:54									#9
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they removed radio? damn... didnt notice it....

...I guess that answers your question too.

	09-04-2004 20:30									#10
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Firaxis did explain why. (To be honest it might have been on Civfanatics, though.) They wanted there to be more than one viable path through the Industrial ages and to make the previously never researched Advanced Flight more enticing.

Antrine, Firaxis does have some good play testers on board (although I have no clue as to what happened on the latest patch, someone was asleep at the wheel), but they won't take any disgruntled, hateful types (in fact I hear words like "Ignore List" used).

	09-04-2004 20:42									#11
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I’m indifferent. But I haven’t played out the new patch that far, so maybe I’ll change my mind in-game. The tech changes that will/did most influence my decisions are the removal of electronics on the way to tanks (of which I approve) and - earlier on - making ironclads an optional tech (which liking a large and varied navy, I’m not a fan of).

	09-04-2004 20:47									#12
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Thanks for heads up WarpStorm!! I'm about to censure myself and move on anyways. And I wouldn't want to work with Firaxis from what I have seen of them these past months. All Good Fortune to each and all. I'll let someone else carry the ball or torch. We'll see from afar what another six months or year do, however I think hoping other game companies are moving along a little more adroitly well.

Piles of smiles and may trials be few...

	11-04-2004 05:51									#13
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I haven't installed the latest C3C patch, partly because I have no time to play Civ these days and partly because I don't like the removal of Radio. Hey, Radio was one of the most important inventions of all time! If it was not receiving proper attention from the players, they should have tried to make it more appealing, not just sack it off the game entirely... Anyway, that's just my $ 0.02...

	11-04-2004 08:10									#14
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I agree with Alex. I find it odd how they've added "ironclads" as a tech, but removed radio. Radio has had a much bigger impact on the world than ironclads.

	11-04-2004 08:37									#15
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Well, the development of ironclads did make every ship in all the navies of the world instantly obsolete. It led to a massive naval arms race that lasted almost 80 years and nearly bankrupted the nations that participated. The arrival of ironclads was like mounted armored knights suddenly appearing amongst unarmored foot soldiers.

	11-04-2004 11:37									#16
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what happened to the radio tech? when did that go away?

	11-04-2004 13:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident what happened to the radio tech? when did that go away?

In patch 1.20. You might not notice it with mods, but in stock ruled it's gone.

	11-04-2004 15:46									#18
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I'm not a big fan of removing techs. This seems to go with their method of making less of things to make the game simpler. I like more of everything . Even if the tech does not offer a unit or facility to build.

	11-04-2004 15:49									#19
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A slight majority, so far, professes to indifference ...

I'm somewhat surprised.

	11-04-2004 22:20									#20
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YA indifferent regarding the Radio tech removal. Just no big deal.

But I am getting irked at the progressive AI loss-of-a clue in C3C and am considering withdrawing to PTW. C3C has all these wonderful additions to the game, but the AI hasn't a clue as to how to use them (other than Radar Towers). I suppose I miss the AI SODs.

	11-04-2004 23:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Well, the development of ironclads did make every ship in all the navies of the world instantly obsolete. It led to a massive naval arms race that lasted almost 80 years and nearly bankrupted the nations that participated. The arrival of ironclads was like mounted armored knights suddenly appearing amongst unarmored foot soldiers.

Still, they didn't make a separate tech for "tanks" or "battleships" did they? The only reason I can think of as to why they added the 'ironclads' tech was to allow frigates to have a longer lifespan. They could have done that by making ironclads available with a later tech, such as 'industrialization', instead.

I like ironclad units (especially the altered ironclads of C3C - it gives you a choice between slow but powerful ironclads, or fast frigates), but I just find it strange that they get their own tech while radio gets removed.

	12-04-2004 02:22									#22
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It's not the ironclad ships themselves that were that useful. They were piles of crap really. It's the age they ushered in. Like how gunpowder changed infantry tactics. Or sails changed tactics from the old human powered ships. Or how tanks changed mobile warfare. you get the picture.

	12-04-2004 04:40									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Antrine Oh and by the way I am now 'Prince' for all this mayhem. Now I guess I'm gonna go see if I can locate some princely powers and use them adroitly well forthwith!!

Get a custom avatar.

	12-04-2004 14:22									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Get a custom avatar.

you need 500 posts for that

	12-04-2004 14:33									#25
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[advertising mode] Or you can sign up for a 'Poly subscription and get a larger avatar regardless of post count. [/advertising mode]

	13-04-2004 18:35									#26
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Yes, I'm happy Radio has been removed. But, I'm dismayed the tech for ironclads has been made a dead-end branch. Ironclads are just not that important. It may have been done to mislead the AI so humans can take advantage researching more critical techs. I certainly will never purposely research for ironclads. Ah hell, what tech is that, can't recall atm.

	13-04-2004 20:55									#27
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quote: Originally posted by dojoboy Ah hell, what tech is that, can't recall atm.

You're kidding right?

	13-04-2004 23:58									#28
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I think the cost for Ironclads tech should be reduced by a good bit. It will still increase the length of the Age of Sail, but not make it so that they are never built.

	14-04-2004 00:43									#29
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How did this morph to a discussion of Ironclads?

WarpStorm: Where did Firaxis explain the reasoning for removing it? I do appear to've missed it.

	14-04-2004 01:29									#30
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I didn't see a post from them about it here. Probably better looking at CFC.