09-04-2004 00:21									#1
	Grand Chat with CFC and CGN Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Is scheduled for friday April 9th at 9:00PM Central Standard Time.

CGN asked for this chat.

They want more gold, and I also mentioned that we should discuss the terms of there evacuation when it becomes necessary (I was trying to be kind )

It will be in the ISDGFAMTALKS chat room.

I have told CGN about this in our Forum for Diplomacy at CGN, and I believe OCT_X has posted a notice at the CFC private forum and I PM'ed Donovon Zoi today.

I will be updating the FA thread and providing links here as well as the link to the Terms thread for CGN.

Anyone is invited to attend, please keep the discussion to FAM personnel and the consels to avoid confusion.

The pertinent diplo dispatches are in FA Corrospondence Thread

We have been coming up with Terms for CGN to relocate to our continent in this Thread

Last edited by conmcb25 on 09-04-2004 at 00:38

	09-04-2004 00:22									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We need to discuss whether we give them more gold or not and any other agenda items.

We need agenda items for CFC as well.

This was posted by Togas in the Old now closed CFC diplo discussion thread before we had our last failed chat with CFC. Here are some good ideas to discuss with CFC and CGN: (A tleast I think so )

quote: In chat, I asked OctavianX to invite his whole team to come chat with us on Sunday, March 28th at 3pm EST in the #isdgfamtalks room. Everyone is welcome. Please drop in. He believes only 2 of his teammates will come as they team isn't very active anymore. However, we'll try to get as many to show as possible. We need to promote our cooperation and continued alliance in this chat, share information, share PLANS, including figuring out how they intend to get their GA and how their tech research is going. We also need to make sure that we're keeping up on sending them tech as GWT gets it. We should also fill them in on details we know about the CGN-GWT war. --Togas

Note the chat "failed" because no one from CFC showed up

	09-04-2004 00:31									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No more gold. 600g is already down the kitty and at this point they're doomed anyways.

	09-04-2004 01:46									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Lets find out and see what they want/need. If it's enought to keep them fighting longer, atleast to keep GWT/GCA in WW, IMHO, it would be well spent.

Plus, from what Trip was telling me, of our economic situation, after the palace move and later (from him working on my sim), it would be within our abilities to let them have a little bit more.

E_T

	09-04-2004 02:07									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by E_T Lets find out and see what they want/need. If it's enought to keep them fighting longer, atleast to keep GWT/GCA in WW, IMHO, it would be well spent. Plus, from what Trip was telling me, of our economic situation, after the palace move and later (from him working on my sim), it would be within our abilities to let them have a little bit more. E_T

HMMM, What does a "little bit more" mean?

If we decide we are willing to give them gold I would sure like a max figure going into the chat.

That way if they ask for less (improbable) we can always agree to it or at least know what our maximum amount is.

And sure we can stall and say we have to poll it, etc, but if we are going to do it we might as well do it now, so CGN gets maximum benefit from it.

Im not pushing for or against a loan, Im just pushing for limits to the negotiatio.

	09-04-2004 02:16									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If we do give them any gold, then we should have a direct hand in how its used since it's obvious we're not getting it back.

	09-04-2004 02:39									#7
	Re: Grand Chat with CFC and CGN Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Is scheduled for friday April 9th at 9:00PM Central Standard Time.

Con, is the Central Standard time OR Central Daylight Time (which it is now with the time change)??

Also, could you convert that to GMT??

Thanks
E_T

	09-04-2004 02:49									#8
	Re: Re: Grand Chat with CFC and CGN Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by E_T Con, is the Central Standard time OR Central Daylight Time (which it is now with the time change)?? Also, could you convert that to GMT?? Thanks E_T

Jeez you guys are tecnical

Fine then Im using the 24 hour clock as well

It should be daylight savings time. Sorry but I live in one of the few states that does not do daylight sabvings and I forget to keep track of it.

Here it is:

quote: In Central Daylight Savings Time, United States when it's: 09:00 PM Friday, April 09, 2004 ( observing DST ) In (UTC/GMT) it will be: 02:00 AM Saturday, April 10, 2004 ( observing Standard Time )

	10-04-2004 18:19									#9
	Thoughts on the chat Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

See the Correspondences thread for the chat logs.

Too much time in the chat was taken up with some CGN member called muk14, wanting massive funds for upgrades now and every 2 turns. He had this crazy idea, that with just a few Upgraded Knights, that he could take out their Ansars, that are nessled in a Pike/MI/Cat SOMG (Stack O' Mega Death) with using lots of warriors as cat fodder and take the pikes down enough for the Knights to effectively counterattack..... I'd like to have what that guy is smoking, if it's legal and doesn't show up on a pi$$ test.....

Then CFC starts up, with one of their members, who is wet behind the ears, going by the name of Hygro. He's having problems with still giving us money every turn, especially if they loan money to CGN. I just hope that they (CFC) doesn't ask CGN to give them Gunpowder before GWT/GCA gets it.

We break up the chat, somewhat, to separate rooms, because of this and start to show CFC some of the things that we know about what will very likely happen. This guy finally sees the light.

Interesting Intelligence Items in the chat:
- CFC Is building their FP in that one city that they just added workers to.
- CFC doen;t look at the Mil Advisor screen much. [EDIT]or some of the other screens. They had to go back several turn's reports to figure out who long it will be to get Printing Press, because they don;t report and analyse things like we do.[/edit]
- CFC leadership doens't want (currently) to get their land settled too quickly, in favor of what, is anyones guess.
- CFC doesn't know what a worker pump is or what it can do.
- CFC pointed out that we could have taken them down, Militarily and they have either been waiting for us to cross the border any turn or trying to fugure out why we haven;t yet
- CFC was thinking about having a Phony War with us (for their GA), until we showed them what our long range Alliance plans were and against who. The fact that our members were very much against this didn't seem to phase them for a while. Also, they want it bad, but we told them that they need to hold off and save it for a while. They listened (atleast someone listens to us...).
- CFC's more astute and forward thinking members (the ones who know how to build and run a good economy) are mostly absent. So, they have to fumble around in the dark to get where they are trying to go to, without any clear direction of how to get there.
- some of CFC's membership seems to feel that the money that they are giving us is not needed, especially in light of CGN's need. But then, we dangled out the prospect of them getting a GA with their Riders against GCA in a possible future Invasion. This went hand in hand with the need to work further together. As long as we point them to where we want them to go to, they will go. We just have to be as diplomatic as possible. We need to continue having regular chats with CFC.


Last thought from all of this:
Team Apolyton, out of the teams that we have delt with, is the smartest, most forward thinking and most of all, the team with the most maturity. I am very glad and proud to be part of this team and to work with the people that we have here, vocal and lurkers.

MoI E_T

	10-04-2004 20:02									#10
	Re: Thoughts on the chat Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by E_T Last thought from all of this: Team Apolyton, out of the teams that we have delt with, is the smartest, most forward thinking and most of all, the team with the most maturity. I am very glad and proud to be part of this team and to work with the people that we have here, vocal and lurkers. MoI E_T

Amen brother, amen

There were of course some productive side chats going on.

The one between Arnelos and SL3 was very productive and is posted.

I also had a very quick side chat with Zarn who seemed to be one of the more mature and lucid CFC members in the chat. I provided him with the CGN screenies of the SoMD (tm), and told him that they had better think twice before commiting a lot of money to CGN.

He saw the stack, said $hit, and said I had a very valid point.

He also started bringing up the "Luck" angle, which I tried to deflect by having the "We know bongo, bongo is very good, and CGN has been relatively inept thus far, which biongo has capitalized on" arguement.

We also briefly discussed that the hardest decision to make is how much to help and whether it would really help CGN out at all in this war.

OK the other points I want to make are on diplomacy:

1. Grand Chats in the FUTURE:

When we have a "Grand Chat" in the future only a few heavy hitters from each team should at a minimum be allowed to speak, and maybe a few heavy hitters should be all that is allowed in the chat. There were to many side conversations started by too many nOOb's for the main chat to go anywhere.

2. Diplomacy with CGN and CFC on a Recurring Basis:

We need to keep up contact with both teams at least once a week from now on. I have had a lot of luck posting things in the CGN Embassy forum. Maybe we need to set something up with CFC as well. So as the Deputy FAM, Ill be looking to me (CGN ambassador) and Zargon and WhiteBandit (CFC ambassadors) to work out something where we are talking to both teams on a more frequent basis.

	10-04-2004 21:42									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I missed, the chat, but I read the logs and got the jist. My thoughts:

1. Evac Waterloo, and Defend the area NE of the core at Arlingon. Do not let them Capture Renewed Castle, either abandon it, or make sure it gets razed upon capture.

2. Use Saugus as the defense point for the Western flank. I know Sevenoaks if the first productive city in the line of fire, but defending there leave them vulnerable to the Tempere-> Washington-> Micco Flanking maneuver. At Saugus a possible counterattack could be launched if/when they took either Sevenoaks or Washington.