12-04-2004 07:59									#31
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So let me get this straight. It's "extremism" to perform what is to us an essentially meaningless ceremony that doesn't really involve any of the supposedly aggrieved parties that, according to the Mormons' beliefs, might grant the deceased entry into eternal paradise.

All I can say is, if that's extremism, I wish all religions would confine themselves to that form of it, instead of foisting creationism on public schools, challenging gay rights, challenging abortion laws, etc.

	12-04-2004 08:00									#32
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quote: So let me get this straight. It's "extremism" to perform what is to us an essentially meaningless ceremony that doesn't really involve any of the supposedly aggrieved parties that, according to the Mormons' beliefs, might grant the deceased entry into eternal paradise.

Its extreme to perform your religious ceremonies on people who hardly even share the same basic beliefs as you.

[QUOTE] All I can say is, if that's extremism, I wish all religions would confine themselves to that form of it, instead of foisting creationism on public schools, challenging gay rights, challenging abortion laws, etc.[/Q]

No, its extreme in conjunction with other things.
Of the things you listed, btw, Utah fits the bill.

	12-04-2004 08:00									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I'm fine with your religion as long as you don't try to forcefeed it to me.

Who are they force feeding it to in this instance? The people are dead. They don't exactly know what's going on.

	12-04-2004 08:04									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar No, its extreme in conjunction with other things. Of the things you listed, btw, Utah fits the bill.

Sure it does, unfortunately, it's still accepted by the majority.

You need more Non-mormons in Utah.

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	12-04-2004 08:05									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Who are they force feeding it to in this instance? The people are dead. They don't exactly know what's going on.

Well, I wouldn't want my relatives to have this done to them. It would, yes, be forcing Mormonism down my throat.
Instead I'd want my whatever's memory to be respected, especially if they didn't even believe in Christ.

Are you just trolling me?

	12-04-2004 08:06									#36
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This is silly. Boris said it best. They are trying to do what they think is good for someone, why does it bother you? They only use names. If Mormonism isn't right, the only bad thing is that they've wasted their time. It's essentially saying someone's name. What's the big deal.

	12-04-2004 08:06									#37
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quote: Are you just trolling me?

Is this the point where "own goal" is said?

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	12-04-2004 08:07									#38
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I wouldn't want somebody doing it to my grandparents, but I can't see how that would affect their chances of the salvation they believed in. Anyway, my grandmother is too damned ornery and proud to allow herself to be kicked out of heaven. And I know she's there because she's to ornery and proud to be anywhere else.

	12-04-2004 08:09									#39
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Again, its disrespectful.
I can dance on somebodies grave. I'm not doing anything to the body/soul, and its just a waste of time....So whats wrong with it?
Its disrespectful. I'm not going to perform any ceremonies I believe in on other people just because I think theyre good and righteous because its simply rude to do so if the other person didn't believe in it.

I'm not saying its morally wrong or anything. I'm just saying its not respectful of the other person regardless of whether the Mormons believe they are doing a good and righteous thing.
Mormons have been persecuted long enough to know some people in this world slightly disagree with the religion. Especially after the Church agreed to stop this practice but didn't quite comply with it.

	12-04-2004 08:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Its extreme to perform your religious ceremonies on people who hardly even share the same basic beliefs as you.

First off, they're not performing it on the person. The person isn't there--they're dead, deceased, kaput, shuffled off this mortal coil, etc.

So in that light, it's hardly religious extremism. Killing people in the name of your religion is extremism. Let's not belittle the word "extremism," shall we?

quote: No, its extreme in conjunction with other things. Of the things you listed, btw, Utah fits the bill.

I'd agree the Mormons fit the bill in other respect, but in this particular instance, they aren't being extreme or even unethical. They're doing a harmless ceremony that they believe will help the individual in question. What exactly is the problem?

	12-04-2004 08:12									#41
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quote: Let's not belittle the word "extremism," shall we?

Boris, I'm not here to play semantics with you.

	12-04-2004 08:14									#42
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No, you're here to have hissy fit over a harmless ceremony that doesn't really do anything to the supposedly aggrieved parties.

Frankly, I would be rather pleased to know that, after my death, some folks were pulling for me to have a happy afterlife. It's called love, Tass.

	12-04-2004 08:16									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov No, you're here to have hissy fit over a harmless ceremony that doesn't really do anything to the supposedly aggrieved parties.

Finally, your right about something.

[Q] Frankly, I would be rather pleased to know that, after my death, some folks were pulling for me to have a happy afterlife. It's called love, Tass. [/QUOTE]

I hate love

	12-04-2004 08:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Finally, your right about something.

My right what?

Oh, I see... you mean, "you're." Gotcha.

	12-04-2004 08:19									#45
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I just realized we have a communist and a homosexual argue about the mormon church. Which holds neither demographic in high regard.



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	12-04-2004 08:22									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov My right what? Oh, I see... you mean, "you're." Gotcha.

When your dead, I'm going to have you baptized bythe Mormon church

	12-04-2004 08:23									#47
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I'm about as in-your-face atheist as they come, but it wouldn't bother me a bit for anyone to performs such a ceremony on my behalf. In fact, I'd be rather appreciative. On the slim chance that there is a heaven and someone wants me to go there, they can knock themselves out lobbying for my admission.

Strange, me siding with the religionists. If there is a hell, it is now frozen.

Seriously though, I see it as no different than praying for someone. It is the thought that counts.

	12-04-2004 08:23									#48
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The Mormon faith is replete with closeted homosexuals, however. Haven't you seen Angels in America?

	12-04-2004 08:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar When your dead,

When my dead what?

	12-04-2004 08:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by gamenaught *snip*

Hey, I already cornered the market in this thread wrt being the "thoughtful, reasonable" atheist. Don't try and horn in on my turf. Bugger off.

	12-04-2004 08:25									#51
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grammer nazi.



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	12-04-2004 08:26									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski grammer nazi.

Grammar.

	12-04-2004 08:26									#53
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"Your Dead" would be a great thing to put on Boris' gravestone.

	12-04-2004 08:27									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Grammar.

That's a sentence fragment, Boris.

	12-04-2004 08:27									#55
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My gravestone will have, above all else, correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, thank you very much.

	12-04-2004 08:29									#56
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT That's a sentence fragment, Boris.

I wasn't writing an essay, now was I? Sometimes succinctness is best.

	12-04-2004 08:29									#57
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quote: Hey, I already cornered the market in this thread wrt being the "thoughtful, reasonable" atheist. Don't try and horn in on my turf. Bugger off.

Sorry, man.

Being thoughtful and reasonable is such a rare opportunity for me, I just had to try it out.

It is ok but I'll stick to being an arse.

	12-04-2004 08:30									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Grammar.

Did you miss the ?

Sucker.



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	12-04-2004 08:30									#59
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I see no harm in this practice.

Now for the people who get immensely worked up over this, I'd say they have too much time on their hands. Or they just hate religious people, one of the two.

	12-04-2004 08:31									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov My gravestone will have, above all else, correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, thank you very much.