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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
What would a patriotic education do? |
Ideally it would help the immigrants to assimilate, by helping instill a common set of stories and images, a national pride, and a common set of values. Historically public education in the US, including our stilted civics curricula (not curriculum, since each state sets its own) played an important role in such assimilation. If, like me, you SUPPORT immigration, it is essential that assimilation be provided for. Im not sure that a "neutral", "socractic" civics and history curriculum does that effectively. I think it depends on age, as well. Whats appropriate for an elementary schooler is not appropriate for a high schooler (apoligies for using US terms for levels of education)
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Derekrage
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
May 2003
time: 05:35
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Derek. Stop posting. You're making yourself look stupid. He used to be the leader of the National Front. The goose-steppin', sieg-heilin', Hitler-lovin', Jew-bashin' National Front. Know them? The burly chaps wearing Swastikas and "Spirit of Auschwitz" T-shirts? He was their leader. Not just a supporter. Their leader. Even without examining the reasons why he was recently convicted for Incitement to Racial Hatred, take a flying stab in the dark as to how he feels about Jews.
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I know Nick Griffin was the national organiser for the National Front, like I said before though it didn't really bother me. I disagree with Nick Griffin on a few things and the BNP on a few things, but overall the BNP's official policies I support.
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Derekrage
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
May 2003
time: 05:35
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This isn't disagreement. This is wilful blindness. You're willing to overlook the fact that the party is run by violent racists, football hooligans, terrorists, rapists and traitors because you find it convenient that they maintain a charade of respectability whilst promoting a basically racist agenda that appeals to you. Don't give me any crap about patriotism, either. While Libyan agents were killing British citizens in Lockerbie, which world leader was Nick Griffin personally visiting in order to beg for funds? You've got it- a certain Colonel Gadaffi.
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Yes I am willing to overlook all those things, except rapists and traitors, if it means getting the BNP into power. Nick Griffins visit to Libya was to raise funding that does not make him a traitor to Britain, even though I think he was a f*****g idiot to meet with a bastard like that, that was years ago and I'm certain he feels the same way about it now.
Lazarus, I do not care if you call me racist or evil because in the here and now the BNP's policies are the best for the British people and the only hope to keep British cities for the British people.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:35
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I am in favour of rejecting all asylum seekers not a vote on individual claims. The majority of people are against asylum or are for a very limited number of asylum seekers so why force them on people against their will?
It's not like we're taking rights away from British citizens so it is not tyranny of the majority.
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But a tyranny against other people, and you have failed to provide a satisfactory distinction. Furthermore, environmental sociological change is not forcing something on another, since that requires direct imposition that is not occuring here.
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What are Sephardic Jews? I would not be against it unless their was an insane amount of them.
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As opposed to the Ashkenazi. There are a large number of Sephardic Jews, many of whom live in Ghetto's (but nice ghettos) in London, but also reasonably well integrated due to the time they have been here. There was an intensely hostile reaction to their arrival from people like you throughout history, using the same arguments that you use today.
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From news stories and from people telling me what it is like. I have been to Egypt though (my wife wanted to see the pyramids) and from what I saw it looked a hell of a lot like Saudi Arabia was reported, except Saudi Arabia is supposed to be even worse.
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Saudi isn't so great, Jordan is ok. I suggest you find more objective sources for your information. Try historical or sociological reports, or perhaps compare several news sources.
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Well I disagree with him on this issue ( if he really is an anti-semite), I never spoke to him personally for more than a few seconds but in the speaches I attended he never expressed any dislike of the Jews.
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I think you'll find that he, like many of the BNP hoarde, are anti-Semitic.
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Ideally it would help the immigrants to assimilate, by helping instill a common set of stories and images, a national pride, and a common set of values. Historically public education in the US, including our stilted civics curricula (not curriculum, since each state sets its own) played an important role in such assimilation. If, like me, you SUPPORT immigration, it is essential that assimilation be provided for. Im not sure that a "neutral", "socractic" civics and history curriculum does that effectively. I think it depends on age, as well. Whats appropriate for an elementary schooler is not appropriate for a high schooler (apoligies for using US terms for levels of education)
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Agreed, though assimilation is a completely different thing to integration, and while I oppose the former, I support the latter, providing that laws are followed of course. In terms of us at home? I'd rather we receive an objective education, since most of our socialisation into British customs is primary sociolation, i.e., family. Immigrants don't generally have that benefit thus education should provide for that, and to that extent, we concur.
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I know Nick Griffin was the national organiser for the National Front, like I said before though it didn't really bother me. I disagree with Nick Griffin on a few things and the BNP on a few things, but overall the BNP's official policies I support.
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With a history like that of the BNP? You would be foolish to look at their policies, partly because they are incoherent BS as I hope to have shown, and partly because the members have a wholly different agenda than they like people to think (for the sake of popularity of course).
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He'd rape his own granny for cash or a few council seats. I bet he's laughing like a drain about the fact that people are naive or plain evil enough to support his scum**** party.
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Lazarus, I do not care if you call me racist or evil because in the here and now the BNP's policies are the best for the British people and the only hope to keep British cities for the British people.
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C- on the propaganda-style language you're using. E- on the critical content.
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"BNP's policies are the best for the British people"
Purely economically I'd have to disagree.
Though even as an economist I'd have to question whether the pursuit of GDP above everything is a wise move...
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Agreed. But then, does one expect good economic credentials from communists like the BNP?
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Park Avenue - Money isn't everything
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Politically speaking, it will determine success or failure, the productivity, the happiness and the influence of a nation. If you want to be nationalistic, then you want to avoid the BNP like there's no tomorrow. The lib-dems economic policy looks pretty good at the moment if I may recommend them?
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Derekrage
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
May 2003
time: 05:35
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But a tyranny against other people, and you have failed to provide a satisfactory distinction. Furthermore, environmental sociological change is not forcing something on another, since that requires direct imposition that is not occuring here. |
It isn't tyranny against another people it is the British people's democratic right to voice their concerns on the policies of the nation, and it is about time the politicians listened to this one.
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Saudi isn't so great, Jordan is ok. I suggest you find more objective sources for your information. Try historical or sociological reports, or perhaps compare several news sources. |
I usually try to watch a bit of all the news programs (BBC, SKY, ITV etc) and the impression I get from that and from people telling me their experiences is that most of them are religious fundies.
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Agreed. But then, does one expect good economic credentials from communists like the BNP? |
Socialists, commies (true commies) are not nationalists.
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Politically speaking, it will determine success or failure, the productivity, the happiness and the influence of a nation. If you want to be nationalistic, then you want to avoid the BNP like there's no tomorrow. The lib-dems economic policy looks pretty good at the moment if I may recommend them? |
I do not vote BNP for economics, my main reasons are their social policies and foreign policies.
Agathon -
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My folks brought their love of the game with them to NZ as did a lot of expat Brits. My old man was a Wolves supporter but Ray got to me first. |
You've got a lot to thank him for!
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I think we've got a good chance. Then again Ray's Dad is the only person I know who remembers when we last won the league (he's 88 I think). |
It's depressing isn't it. I'll feel sorry for Shearer if he retires without any silverwear at Newcastle.
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No. My family comes from there. My grandparents live in Bedlington and my uncle Ray is a commentator for Radio Tyneside (I think that's their name). I always go whenever I'm in the UK. There are a stack of toon fans here in Toronto - we used to all go and watch the games at a local pub. But since satellite has taken off most people stay at home. |
Good to see that there are toon fans abroad  shame about the satellite though.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:35
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quote:
It isn't tyranny against another people it is the British people's democratic right to voice their concerns on the policies of the nation, and it is about time the politicians listened to this one.
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Why, when one person knows better than the consensus of a million, should people listen to the million and not the one who knows better?
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I usually try to watch a bit of all the news programs (BBC, SKY, ITV etc) and the impression I get from that and from people telling me their experiences is that most of them are religious fundies.
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Are you aware of the history and causes behind that though?
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Socialists, commies (true commies) are not nationalists.
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But the BNP are socialists/communists! You could even call them Marxists . Their economic policies are very far left, and doomed to failure. Having said that, and having looked at the policies of the NF (and you thought the BNP were bad  ), they are further to the left of the BNP.
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I do not vote BNP for economics, my main reasons are their social policies and foreign policies.
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Bad call.
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Derekrage
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
May 2003
time: 05:35
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quote:
Why, when one person knows better than the consensus of a million, should people listen to the million and not the one who knows better? |
Who is to say that that one person know's better though, that same person?
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Are you aware of the history and causes behind that though? |
Some of them, but it doesn't matter.
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But the BNP are socialists/communists! You could even call them Marxists . Their economic policies are very far left, and doomed to failure. Having said that, and having looked at the policies of the NF (and you thought the BNP were bad ), they are further to the left of the BNP. |
Economically maybe they are socialist. But to be a communist you have to believe in the brotherhood of workers and all that.
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Derekrage
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Newcastle Upon Tyne
May 2003
time: 05:35
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quote:
Now I'm no fan of people that sell out for money, but I'd much prefer people to be motivated by economics than nationalism (blind patriotism), since I consider nationalism to be far more dangerous. See the sig. |
To be nationalism is the key to my political beliefs. Am I dangerous?
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29-04-2004 21:40
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