17-04-2004 12:38									#1
	Exhuming a Discussion on Military Numbers and Roleplay Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13017

I thought it might be worth reading again since activity is picking up again and there might be a war sooner or later.

Although, my personal feeling is that the problems of the past probably won't be repeated with the current community.

	19-04-2004 07:47									#2
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Hmm... I wonder where the old link to the military thread that I started is... I also remember that some other poster started a PART II to the thread when It got overwhelmed (I think this was back in dec 2002 or feb 2003 or something like that...)

	21-04-2004 08:49									#3
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If you choose to show all threads from the beginning, I believe it is on the second or third page now.

I have found another interesting discussion at this location:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/v...ic.php?t=106485

	22-04-2004 02:15									#4
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Everytime I try the NS forum when America's awake it does not work

Searched for the 'poly thread- Ceroo's airforce is much bigger now.

But seriously, it seemed we were a lot more sensible with our numbers than some other NS players are. For example, being an island nation, Ceroo had a large well-equipped navy, but our army was quite small, and the USJ which always increased military spending when the issue came had millions of everything...

edit for smiley error

	22-04-2004 03:18									#5
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It should be sensible and practical.

The Dictatorship of Frankychanland has a small navy, mostly subs and small patrol craft. Airforce is mostly choppers.

and with a pop of around 250 million, the Dictatorship is running around 500,000 man strong military. The rest is mostly secret police stuff.

Having a nation of 1 billion with 50 million-man army is ridiculous.

	22-04-2004 03:19									#6
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(actually, it's probably more around 200,000 man military.....mostly support too)

	22-04-2004 04:27									#7
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I haven't really worked on the numbers much, but if you guys decide that I have to, then perhaps I will...

	23-04-2004 03:34									#8
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Now I hope you wouldn't be doing that to use against nations friendly to my own because i believe the Hive has been the reigning apolyton military superpower for a rather long time now

Last edited by Lazerus on 23-04-2004 at 03:48

	23-04-2004 05:47									#9
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What I might do, since I'm still not so good with fiddling with the numbers military wise, is comment more on what Karakas' doctrines and strategic goals are, and not so much on what specific equipment it has.

	24-04-2004 08:18									#10
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Last time we did it we sort of went by it in a pseudo-economic way. We first figured out what the GDP would be, then set some % to be the defense budget, and went from there.

Of course, some of the countries have much higher tech than others (say fusion for example), so puny little aggressors beware.

	24-04-2004 11:11									#11
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the problem with any number crunching is it all depends on too many factors that dont exist in this game at all. Thing slike GDP is not real in nationstates. military budgets are not real. the population numbers are too big really.

So far we havent needed to cross this line as all in the current RP are sensible people and arent playing godlike mods to any affect. lets keep it simple and forget the number crunching.

	24-04-2004 16:56									#12
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I like it if we come down to numbers
high pop, forced military service, my nation is one of the fittest and healthiest, people are all trained martial artists, largest defence force per capita in apolyton for a long time and the strongest possible economy to easily uphold it, and unlike these UN members theres no ethics involved on what weapons i've developed.... oooo the posibilites !!!!


ack my crumpets smell like they're done


The Republic of Dumb love
"todays victim:Hive thanks for the flag "


some little runts just stole my flag

Last edited by Lazerus on 24-04-2004 at 17:26

	25-04-2004 03:03									#13
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Destroy 'em Lazerus

	25-04-2004 13:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus high pop, forced military service, my nation is one of the fittest and healthiest, people are all trained martial artists, largest defence force per capita in apolyton for a long time and the strongest possible economy to easily uphold it, and unlike these UN members theres no ethics involved on what weapons i've developed.... oooo the posibilites !!!!

See, that's what you get when you allow players to BS without any basis in reality.

	25-04-2004 13:19									#15
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Yeah. Like the time the guy with the Imploded economy said he was completely converting to fusion power.

	25-04-2004 13:34									#16
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Points Based Military Creation Doo-Hickey (from the Planet Mars regional website)

Attachment: pbmc.zip
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	25-04-2004 13:42									#17
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That thing is completely insane. Going by its results, I could have a military 2% of my entire population, with Excellent on every category, and still have points left over.

Hence, I recommend that we not use it.

	26-04-2004 02:15									#18
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quote: See, that's what you get when you allow players to BS without any basis in reality

If you can convince several billion people to worship me and obtain a suitable landmass then we'll place a bet on if i can acheive it, because 90% of the nations within this game have no realistic counterpart anyways so there


Besides stick 50 years on china and they'll have the economy and military to fit, add another 100 years when genetic manipulation has become alot easier and the health problems are mainly solved. All we need then is conscription and voila the Hive is born

	26-04-2004 03:15									#19
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Hive military

Show me how yours came out plz
i got 90mill+ pop in the service and i look like a high tech red army

	26-04-2004 05:13									#20
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why is your population in the cell only showing such a small number of 430,000,000 when your pop is actually 2.4 bill in the column over to the left

Nation: Hive
Population: 430,000,000
Economy: Frightening
Technology: Post-Modern
Defense Spending: Ruled
Total Points: 34125
Current Points: 31


Is that jsut to limit the total avaialble to the army, sorry , just not sure how this excel thing works ....

	26-04-2004 05:19									#21
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Total Enlistment
49,500,000


tha tis the numbers they compute for me, which seems way too high ...!!!!!

	26-04-2004 12:55									#22
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It seems he used the 'Add Population' function, which, according to the attached comment, is so that:

quote: If you do not have Excel and still have the Excel viewer you can use this area to add population so you can still use the spreadsheet. It is limited to multiples of 100 million however.

In any case, my military came out looking like this. Oddly, with half of Hive's national budget, I outmatch them in every single area.

	26-04-2004 13:03									#23
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus That thing is completely insane. Going by its results, I could have a military 2% of my entire population, with Excellent on every category, and still have points left over. Hence, I recommend that we not use it.

I suspect you are right.

	26-04-2004 13:05									#24
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Unless we all divide our population figure by a million.

	26-04-2004 13:15									#25
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looks like an amazing chat -

	26-04-2004 13:36									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Only through peace and compassion a stable empire or nation can be achieved. Name me one nation that has been stable for a long time by opressing it's people or by centring all power arround one individual. Their are non. Don't try to say the egyptians because this is not true, their culture was more complex then a simple dictatorship.
You a most benevolent chairman Lazarus name China as a supreme power but is it not so that China is opening her border for capitalist influences. Has China not recently recognised private property. The seeds for a capatalist system are their. China will grow in power that is true. A superpower yes but a Hivian dictatorship or goverment structure is just to unlikely.
True strenght lays in happiness fredom and respect and ofcours in compassion.

	26-04-2004 15:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise Yeah. Like the time the guy with the Imploded economy said he was completely converting to fusion power.

Says the person who doesn't know economics even when it hits him in the head.

	26-04-2004 16:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus It seems he used the 'Add Population' function, which, according to the attached comment, is so that: In any case, my military came out looking like this. Oddly, with half of Hive's national budget, I outmatch them in every single area.

The calculation of the (former) ACAB military (GT will remember) was enough to prove to me that the creator left a lot to be desired.
Remember, rules were made to be exploited...

	26-04-2004 16:48									#29
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Oh, yes... I do remember the millionaire grunts.

	26-04-2004 22:00									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was really tired when i was messing about with that chart, did i enter things correct ? time for another look