30-07-2004 12:30									#211
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quote: Are people aware enough of the special definition civ gives to 'trade'? I wasn't, Bongo wasn't, and I had the impression that Flandrien and/or McMeadows might have been 'going with the flow' on the issue. Would clarifiying the language of 1-2 somehow avoid future misunderstandings?

'going with the flow'?

To end the discussion and to avoid one in the future, go add to the etiquette.

	30-07-2004 14:30									#212
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wouldn't hurt my feelings if you added language defining trade.

	30-07-2004 14:46									#213
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Would be very good indeed. Apart from resource/luxury trade, we got tech trades, border agreements, Non Agression Pacts, Mutual Protection Pacts, limited MPPs(towards one/some civs only), research pacts and probably much more.

	30-07-2004 20:25									#214
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NEWS FLASH

Ricketyclik of the Arabs has been eliminated from Coliseum A. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say, he eliminated himself after gifting 2 cities to the Japanese and then letting them walk into his capital, after the Incan hordes had demolished 3 of his towns.

	30-07-2004 20:39									#215
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welcome off board, rick!

	31-07-2004 05:49									#216
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Question: (and not to imply any wrongdoing here, just curious) What is or is not considered ok for this tournament in terms of 'giving up'. IE, giving cities slash destroying cities? I know it's tempting to give your cities to either your allies or just the opposite side when you're losing -- but it often throws off the balance of the game, and (again) penalizes the winning player(s)...

	31-07-2004 07:08									#217
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quote: 2-2 Cities may be offered diplomatically only as part of a peace treaty.

Gifting cities on your way out is a pretty clear imbalancing factor and violation of this one. A peace treaty implies you are trying to maintain a presence in the game.

I'd go back and abandon Rick's cities after his last turn, but it sounds like Paddy and Aqua are ok with continuing as is...?

	31-07-2004 08:34									#218
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well while I am not ok with the process, my lads are just rolling through the country side either smashing the cities, or watching the mad Jappaman abandon them after recieving them as gifts...

all very strange indeed

	31-07-2004 09:06									#219
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I now own nothing gifted to me by Ricketyclik. Nothing was produced in the cities between the time I received them and abandoned them.

	31-07-2004 09:08									#220
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I'm not impressed since it's a clear violation of the rules. However, it was never going to change much in this case so I'm not too bothered, which is why we just kept playing.

	31-07-2004 09:18									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Masuro I now own nothing gifted to me by Ricketyclik. Nothing was produced in the cities between the time I received them and abandoned them.

while this may be true

you have not allowed the conqueoring army any spoils...

he just gave them to you

and you have mainly abandoned them

	31-07-2004 09:23									#222
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I agree, it is a violation of 2-2, sorry, didn't notice that one. I was thinking along the lines of history, where a small nation essentially surrenders it's sovereignty to a favoured neighbour or friend. (eg: Australia to the US )

I'm open to whatever, and I'm sorry for unintentionally breaking the rule.

	31-07-2004 09:33									#223
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I'm still willing to go back a few turns

	31-07-2004 10:02									#224
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I bet you are

	31-07-2004 10:08									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot while this may be true you have not allowed the conqueoring army any spoils... he just gave them to you and you have mainly abandoned them

I could have abandoned them too.

	31-07-2004 10:24									#226
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yes you could have...

and I could have lived with that (as I am living with the Green baron's madness...)

yet they were yours to abandon, not his

and what was that manourve with your capital...

you just walked your lads outside and let his spearman and warrior walk in ...

maybe you could talk to the folks in Persia about letting the Tamworth Music Festival Battalion do that

	31-07-2004 10:28									#227
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Ah, it all shows in some ways how realistic this can be at the human level. We're all having a whale of a time for so long, but then the going gets tough.....and desperate people do desperate things.

To borrow a quote from Paddy, it is all good.....well, mostly anyway

	31-07-2004 10:43									#228
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hahahahaha

yes we did have a good time for a long time

	31-07-2004 18:35									#229
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Rommel's behavior in c3c is a great contrast to this action here. He has had no chance for awhile, due to an overwhelming combination of military tech disadvantage, alliance against him, and relative size, but he has carried on as best he can. (And remains a definite pain in the ass )

	01-08-2004 05:33									#230
	Inflate your Upload Space

The worst problem was starting in the jungle, away from the coast with a seafaring tribe, on a map that was 'previewed for fairness'- the main reason I promoted the restart rule in this tournament.

I actually have the military tech advantage. If saltpeter had been more accesible for me I could have offered Egypt reasonable resistance. Does Krill think my melted butter defense is a pain in the ass?

	01-08-2004 07:38									#231
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thanks for clearing up my question ^^

Masuro, i'd say you did the right thing. The cities should rightly have been abandoned by ricketyclick, and thus abandoning them yourself is the right thing to do. Sorry, Paddy... i'm sure you can put the empty land to good use

	01-08-2004 07:41									#232
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ahh and they wiped the opportunity to take true spoils of war

and yes although these lands are far from my borders (and very very close to Lord Aqualungs) I hope that one day I will be able to use these lands...

but alas I fear that the game may be long over by then

for the mighty Eygptian has the Pyramids and Iron to play so hard in the face of war

	01-08-2004 08:10									#233
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Yet the mighty Inca have cities a-plenty, a stronger army and a GA up their sleeves

	01-08-2004 16:04									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot ahh and they wiped the opportunity to take true spoils of war

see it from the positive side: you saved lots of units by not having to conquer them.... these units can help you getting the pyramid and iron

	01-08-2004 16:50									#235
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Masuro, i'd say you did the right thing. The cities should rightly have been abandoned by ricketyclick, and thus abandoning them yourself is the right thing to do.

Well, I shouldn't have accepted them in the first place. I have to take half the blame for the 'scandal'.

	01-08-2004 17:07									#236
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ahh well we are all just blowing smoke...

as it is along run to the end game

	01-08-2004 18:01									#237
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf see it from the positive side: you saved lots of units by not having to conquer them.... these units can help you getting the pyramid and iron

Ok, i'm confused. Are you folks playing a stripped down version of civIII? In my version, it's Pyramids... like more than one ... since I need many burial locations for my former enemies...

	01-08-2004 21:48									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D The worst problem was starting in the jungle, away from the coast with a seafaring tribe, on a map that was 'previewed for fairness'- the main reason I promoted the restart rule in this tournament. I actually have the military tech advantage. If saltpeter had been more accesible for me I could have offered Egypt reasonable resistance. Does Krill think my melted butter defense is a pain in the ass?

The starting locations did seem unfair. Portugal has the largest gnp simply because of its river system, for example. Egypt's capital is way out of alignment with its civ. And the Arabs lacked water, although i think Adagio may have mistaken the huge middle lake for ocean in the beginning of the game.

I was referring to chivalry as the tech disadvantage in question

But you fought to the end, as did Adagio, and that caused units losses for the attacking alliance and avoided the fiasco discussed above.

My recommendation for all of us would be not to make deals that tilt the outcome of the game one way or another as we gracefully exit the game

I plan to practice this relatively soon in a couple of games

	03-08-2004 02:28									#239
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quote: The starting locations did seem unfair. Portugal has the largest gnp simply because of its river system, for example. Egypt's capital is way out of alignment with its civ. And the Arabs lacked water, although i think Adagio may have mistaken the huge middle lake for ocean in the beginning of the game.

Trust me, you have no idea how screwed up my empire is. Gold is the only thing I have in any amount, so I thank the guys for showing me why to cut iron

	03-08-2004 19:28									#240
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Alas, it has fallen upon me, Cleopatra of the Egyptians, to inform the world at large that Japan has been eliminated from Coliseum A.....largely at the point of Incan arrows - as were the Arabs - it's clear who the aggressor in this game has been

Paddy?