21-04-2004 23:44									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc So the US should hire African 'peacemakers' as auxiliary troops to deploy 'anywhere in the world' in order that US legions can be freed for combat duty? (see the article I posted earlier). I think it is a bit immoral to hire poor black people to do the job for rich decadent white people. But it will be accepted because they are from Africa, and not the States.

How is it immoral? They aren't forced to do it. They agree to.

	22-04-2004 05:39									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich How is it immoral? They aren't forced to do it. They agree to.

Its not 'immoral', but I think that the idea that to have foreign troops to implement the ideas of 'whatever' for a superpower seems open-ended in some way.

The later Roman Empire made use of auxiliary troops to boost the stength of the legions.

So when it is immoral, it is because history instructs that it does not bring a solution, but perhaps many problems to come.

	22-04-2004 05:40									#93
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quote: The later Roman Empire made use of auxiliary troops to boost the stenght of the legions.

Yes, which just demonstrates that it may be unwise for the continuance of American hegemony. Not immoral.

	22-04-2004 05:52									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Yes, which just demonstrates that it may be unwise for the continuance of American hegemony. Not immoral.

For the honored senators to give his Emperor the right to make use of foreign auxiliaries is not immoral, but for the senators to allow the populace to be dependant on men not citizens of the Republic is surely immoral.

	22-04-2004 08:54									#95
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I think the draft is crap. Doesn't that just create a population boom inCanada?
Personally I'm just gonna create my "Mexico" fund, and save up a crap load of moaneu so I cna move to Mexico, where my moolah is worth more, and reire like a king, or a rapper!

	22-04-2004 12:23									#96
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We would rather build terminators than hire undependable human freaks.

	22-04-2004 17:31									#97
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Say, how about conscription? EVERYBODY goes to army, not just the balloted ones. (They used a ballot, right?)

Then they'll see who's good at peacekeeping, who at sniping...

	22-04-2004 19:17									#98
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Fox nightly news reported that 71% of their responding viewers were opposed to a draft. That's a lot of right-wing nut balls.

	22-04-2004 19:24									#99
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That's strange -- I thought right-wingers like to falliciously claim that draft protestors are only due to the credit of liberals??

	22-04-2004 19:25									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Charlie Rangel also supports the draft. His point is more about punishing whitey tho' vs. actual need for troops. He sees the demographics of the armed forces slanted so that black make up a disproportianate share vs. demographics of America. Hence his solution is the draft to kill more whiteys.

Well, why not? Why should the darkies, the spanish (including recent immigranst) be the ones dying for whitey?

I say, draft only the sons of people making over 100,000 a year (heck, that would include me).

Then lets see how many senators will be itching for war.

Interesitngly , in the past, the rich were as likely to die in wars as the poor. NOt anymore.

	22-04-2004 19:42									#101
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun That's strange -- I thought right-wingers like to falliciously claim that draft protestors are only due to the credit of liberals??

Volunteers fight better than draftees.

	22-04-2004 19:49									#102
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I'd like to see you all in uniform.

The Romans offered citizenship to those who served in their legions once they met certain service criteria. There's an idea for you.

The generals must be worried about wear and tear on the existing regular and reserve units. It's hard to see how they could rotate the same people through too many times.

The Brits had a similar problem garrisoning Iraq. In the end they pulled out.

	22-04-2004 19:50									#103
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Volunteers fight better than draftees.

So, quantity over quality.

Besides, are you daring to say patriotic Americans would not fight with the ultimate zeal!?

I say we ship of Hannity to Iraq to end the war single handedly. I would ask he be dropped alone with a handgun in the sunni triangle..

Please!

	22-04-2004 19:58									#104
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Besides, are you daring to say patriotic Americans would not fight with the ultimate zeal!?

Troll someone that cares about the subject and isn't just stating a basic fact.

	22-04-2004 20:00									#105
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Having a draft is a good thing surely? It helps especialy in a democracy.
I wish they had compulsory military service in the u.k.
It would teach discipline to the young people who seem to have been let drift by a generation of disinterested parents.

But most importantly it would mean the citizens of the nation would learn, the hard way, to take responsibility for their voting actions

I'd pre-vote for Bush today if i could, if he would promise to draft all able bodied americans into the army, heck he might put pressure to do the same to the britsh Prime Minister

Go Bush Go! I might love you a bit after all you old dog

	22-04-2004 20:00									#106
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Why? Your little darling pronouncements so invite trolls.

Besides, I doubt conservatives as a whole prefer the citizen army simply due to possible qualitative edge.

	22-04-2004 20:01									#107
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Why not?

	22-04-2004 22:49									#108
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I can't wait for the draft to start saturday

	22-04-2004 22:55									#109
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why not?

Cause you are the ONLY one to ever bring that up-and I have not seen many other anywhere make the claim.

	22-04-2004 23:57									#110
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Interesitngly , in the past, the rich were as likely to die in wars as the poor. NOt anymore.

Do you ever tire of being wrong? In the Civil War when conscription became en vogue the big rub was that the rich could buy their way out of service.

	23-04-2004 00:30									#111
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What I don't understand is why Hagel is getting all the flak when, in fact, it was Charles Rangel (D, NY) who introduced the bill calling to re-instate the draft... and did so 14 months ago. Now a lot of people said he* did it as a joke, a way to protest the war... but here he still is, calling for the draft.



Of course, their motives are less than exemplary... Rather than having an all-volunteer army face the dangers, they are worried that the death and destruction aren't spread across a broad enough segment of society. Rangle himself complained that minorities (Blacks and Hispanics (He didn't mention Asians/Native Americans/etc... I guess B&H's are the only minorities that count in Rangels world) account for 25% of the deaths in Iraq....

... While ignoring that the army is over 30% black and hispanic.

... While ignoring that the B&H population is 26.5% of the total US population.

Looking at the facts and then juxtapositioning their positions on the issue, Rangel and Hagel are obviously (if unknowingly) calling for an even greater percentage of Black and Hispanic deaths in Iraq.

*The other sponsor on the bill was Fritz Hollings (D, SC).

	23-04-2004 00:31									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Do you ever tire of being wrong? In the Civil War when conscription became en vogue the big rub was that the rich could buy their way out of service.

Hell, it was legal to buy your way out of service.

	23-04-2004 00:35									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Do you ever tire of being wrong? In the Civil War when conscription became en vogue the big rub was that the rich could buy their way out of service.

Wow, I did not know human history begun in 1860!!! WOW, INCREDABLE!!!

So I guess the whole bit about kings having to go to battle, landowners also being warriors, the young sons of the noble having to be kinghts to earn respect and so on counts as, what? Dog history?

	23-04-2004 00:44									#114
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Wow! I didn't realize American history and American conscription existed in times of knights!!

Which in the context of Rangel is what he is talking about.

	23-04-2004 00:44									#115
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Wow, I did not know human history begun in 1860!!! WOW, INCREDABLE!!! So I guess the whole bit about kings having to go to battle, landowners also being warriors, the young sons of the noble having to be kinghts to earn respect and so on counts as, what? Dog history?

Republican, warmongering, neocon propoganda to get us to all accept the idea of conflict. Of course history only started in 1860...thought you knew that Gepap

	23-04-2004 00:46									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Wow! I didn't realize American history and American conscription existed in times of knights!! Which in the context of Rangel is what he is talking about.

NOt the context my comment was made in-so one demerit for making a assumption of yourself.

	23-04-2004 00:48									#117
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Then 2 demerits for being a thread jackasser to you.

	23-04-2004 00:52									#118
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Ming, Im not feeling ur new avvy. Ur old one was much more terrifying.

Getting drafted sounds fun! Get pissed off at government, put my life on hold, patrol around stinkin desert and eat a bullet.

Sounds great where do I sign up? errr... forced to get signed up? errr whatever.

	23-04-2004 01:28									#119
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Republican, warmongering, neocon propoganda to get us to all accept the idea of conflict. Of course history only started in 1860...thought you knew that Gepap

You mean like how Republican presidents such as Reagan snuggled with brutal, blood-thirsty dictators in Central America?




Not to mention the fact that the Repbulican party of the 1860s was a vastly different party from the Republican party of today.

	23-04-2004 05:51									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc For the honored senators to give his Emperor the right to make use of foreign auxiliaries is not immoral, but for the senators to allow the populace to be dependant on men not citizens of the Republic is surely immoral.

Ah, so you're arguing that pursueing (sp?) an unwise couse of action as a leader is immoral as a breach of responsibility... which nevertheless is just and argument that it may not be the most beneficial thing to do. Clearly, the administration thinks it is.