23-04-2004 05:52									#121
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, why not? Why should the darkies, the spanish (including recent immigranst) be the ones dying for whitey?

Because they were the ones who signed up. They weren't forced to.

	23-04-2004 05:53									#122
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Cause you are the ONLY one to ever bring that up-and I have not seen many other anywhere make the claim.

You haven't?

	23-04-2004 13:30									#123
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quote: Well, why not? Why should the darkies, the spanish (including recent immigranst) be the ones dying for whitey?

Because they volunteered? Duh...

	23-04-2004 20:56									#124
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Which is why conscription is a much fairer system - it doesn't(as much) discriminate against those of a poorer background.

I think if we broadly support our governments view and actions on war, we should at least have the balls to eat the cake of our own making.

Stand to! Stand to! Get in line you pile of scum! get down+give me twenty!

	23-04-2004 21:50									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Because they volunteered? Duh...

Well, one would wonder why people not served best by the system would be the ones signing to defend it (why si whitey so unpatriotic?) until of course you realize for darkies and spanish this might be the best job they can get in the system, with low pay, yes, but nice benefits for furthering themselves.

So the fact the system serves darkie and spanish bad is why they end up protecting whitey's unpatriotic butt.

Which is why some darkies and spanish woudl like to haul whitey's butt into the service so they get a taste.

	23-04-2004 21:52									#126
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, one would wonder why people not served best by the system would be the ones signing to defend it (why si whitey so unpatriotic?) until of course you realize for darkies and spanish this might be the best job they can get in the system, with low pay, yes, but nice benefits for furthering themselves. So the fact the system serves darkie and spanish bad is why they end up protecting whitey's unpatriotic butt. Which is why some darkies and spanish woudl like to haul whitey's butt into the service so they get a taste.

No comment, just wanted to make sure that GePap didn't erase language that polite society hasn't spoken in near half a century.

	23-04-2004 21:53									#127
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, one would wonder why people not served best by the system would be the ones signing to defend it (why si whitey so unpatriotic?) until of course you realize for darkies and spanish this might be the best job they can get in the system, with low pay, yes, but nice benefits for furthering themselves. So the fact the system serves darkie and spanish bad is why they end up protecting whitey's unpatriotic butt. Which is why some darkies and spanish woudl like to haul whitey's butt into the service so they get a taste.

Excepting the fact that the services are 70% white? Just like the country?

Gotta love the Left... protested the draft for nigh on 15 years, only to want it when it isn't your war.

Like I said: the Left isn't about equality and fairness, it's about revenge and hate. It's not that people are dying, its that the wrong people are dying. :insert vomit smilie here:

	23-04-2004 21:56									#128
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One wonders how this argument (only poor black/hispanic people join the army) flies in light of the news regarding the white rich NFL player who died today in Afghanistan. I think I'll be told that one example does not an argument make, which I'll be sure to throw back at them when they use their own anecdotal evidence to prove their points.

	23-04-2004 22:19									#129
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT One wonders how this argument (only poor black/hispanic people join the army) flies in light of the news regarding the white rich NFL player who died today in Afghanistan. I think I'll be told that one example does not an argument make, which I'll be sure to throw back at them when they use their own anecdotal evidence to prove their points.

Sometimes one exception proves the rule. However I don't know if it is true that minorities are over-represented in the armed forces. I think that is kind of getting off course. The real question is if the poor are over-represented in the armed forces -specifically frontline combat duty.

For instance in the latest pay-adjustments the airforce personel were given a 7 percent payrise, while the Army personel was given only a 1.8 percent payrise.

	23-04-2004 22:20									#130
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT No comment, just wanted to make sure that GePap didn't erase language that polite society hasn't spoken in near half a century.

That was the point.

	23-04-2004 22:26									#131
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Excepting the fact that the services are 70% white? Just like the country?

If you are talking about all the services combined, I have no doubt. If you talk about the infantry and marines IIRC the ratio includes is tilted more towards minorities, though the SF are almost monotone white.

quote: Gotta love the Left... protested the draft for nigh on 15 years, only to want it when it isn't your war.

Can't you try better? The guys proposing this are Hegel, Biden, and Rangel. Now, feel free and reserach their record on it. "THe Left" you mention though does NOT support the draft.

quote: Like I said: the Left isn't about equality and fairness, it's about revenge and hate. It's not that people are dying, its that the wrong people are dying. :insert vomit smilie here:

	23-04-2004 22:27									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Sometimes one exception proves the rule. However I don't know if it is true that minorities are over-represented in the armed forces. I think that is kind of getting off course.

For the purpose of Rangel, this is precisely the point as in my opinion he could care less about poor economicaly challenged white folk.

The broader issue you raise may have merit but is not IMO the motivation for Rangel.

	23-04-2004 22:35									#133
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT One wonders how this argument (only poor black/hispanic people join the army) flies in light of the news regarding the white rich NFL player who died today in Afghanistan. I think I'll be told that one example does not an argument make, which I'll be sure to throw back at them when they use their own anecdotal evidence to prove their points.

Go ahead to use what is a valid point. I use it all the time myself.

	23-04-2004 22:39									#134
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IIRC, btw, in the combat forces in the USA, ethnically, there are more "whites" than country-wide.

just my 2c.

you can continue your internal bickering.

	23-04-2004 22:53									#135
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Well, the special forces are almost all white.

	23-04-2004 23:04									#136
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, one would wonder why people not served best by the system would be the ones signing to defend it (why si whitey so unpatriotic?) until of course you realize for darkies and spanish this might be the best job they can get in the system, with low pay, yes, but nice benefits for furthering themselves. So the fact the system serves darkie and spanish bad is why they end up protecting whitey's unpatriotic butt. Which is why some darkies and spanish woudl like to haul whitey's butt into the service so they get a taste.

Again, what is the problem? If they don't want to, they don't have to. The fact that the government is offering them a good deal doesn't make it bad. Would they be happier if serving in the military didn't offer them those nice benefits?

They don't have to defend us, they choose to, and they can't whine about it.

	23-04-2004 23:07									#137
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Which is why conscription is a much fairer system - it doesn't(as much) discriminate against those of a poorer background.

the sort of thinking that produces things like communism at its worst - why don't we make it equally bad for everybody?

This is completely fair - it isn't discriminatory at all. The military doesn't care whether or not you're rich. When you choose to sign up, you can't complain.

	24-04-2004 00:17									#138
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Conscription only works on those who are uneducated or unwilling enough to go to the effort to avoid it. Just ask Bill Clinton... unlike most Repubs who get taken to task for "avoiding" service via the National Guard (Dubya, Quayle) the man figured out how to avoid it entirely. And all while taking the double-whammy of being both poor and educated in Arkansas.

Regardless, the point isn't "well, they do it too"... the point is that regardless of what sort of imposed system people argue for, you will still end up with the same demographic distortions that the Left* are now using as evidence in their arguments to support the draft.

*How else to describe Biden and Rangle?

Last edited by JohnT on 24-04-2004 at 02:04

	24-04-2004 00:51									#139
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I think the system Sweden had when I was that age was quite good. Basic training (~1 year) was mandatory for those who was sane and fit, while foreign service was volontary (and payed) for those who got good marks from basic training.

It is still that way in theory, but only about 30 percent of the sane and fit are picked for basic training today. Our current commander in chief want a radical change, where no officer is older than 35 years (they should all be fit for field service). With the current organisation, there are too many armchair officers who are not fit enough to join the troops in the mud.

Some retired generals suggested earlier this week that we should reduce the army to three state-of-the art combat brigades of well-equipped and well-paid volonteers who are always ready to go on foreign missions with just a few days notice. This would be combined with a short mandatory training in basic weapons skills and self-defence tactics for both genders (probably to be able to pick out those who are most talented).

The Russian army don't have the capability to invade us within a long time anyway, so the 700 000 man army we could mobilise in 1987 is no longer needed. Peace-keeping missions and quick reaction is what we need today.

(The military authorities sent me an order to burn my mobilisation order a while ago. Well, if they don't want fat and cheezy officers, they don't want fat and cheezy privates either...)

	24-04-2004 00:53									#140
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quote: Like I said: the Left isn't about equality and fairness, it's about revenge and hate. It's not that people are dying, its that the wrong people are dying.

wow... and I used to think you weren't a moron

forgive me if you were just trolling

	24-04-2004 00:55									#141
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT *How else to describe Biden and Rangle?

Democrats. There is a difference.

Hegel is a republican. That does not make him "the right". Delay is "the right", Hegel isn't.

Biden doesn;t even care about the demographics, and in fact, neither does rangel really-his point is that conscription would in the modern day make it far more politically costly to go to war, and make legislators think twice before giving the go-ahead.

	24-04-2004 01:40									#142
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If Rangel was simply posing the suggestion as a means to prevent modern day war why was he defending it with diatribes regarding race?

	24-04-2004 02:04									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Sava wow... and I used to think you weren't a moron forgive me if you were just trolling

The number of times you have actually called me a moron (or his close cousin, the idiot), either by name or by group identification, is innumerable.

In short: I don't believe that first sentence for a minute.

Forgive me if you were just trolling.

	24-04-2004 02:08									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe If Rangel was simply posing the suggestion as a means to prevent modern day war why was he defending it with diatribes regarding race?

It is an add on, but race is not the primary motive.

Hey, look at W and the WMD charge and Iraq

	24-04-2004 02:16									#145
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Touche. Doesn't mean I don't think Rangel isn't a dick tho'.

	24-04-2004 02:27									#146
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT The number of times you have actually called me a moron (or his close cousin, the idiot), either by name or by group identification, is innumerable. In short: I don't believe that first sentence for a minute. Forgive me if you were just trolling.

never by name before...

I can't help it if you associate yourself with certain groups that I consider to be morons.

No specific offense intended... I just personally think your statement was stupid.

Whether or not the draft of Vietnam was directly racist or not is debatable. But to say "the Left" is upset just because the "wrong people died" is completely retarded. I just didn't expect such a dumb statement to come from you, that's all.

Don't worry though. Dumb statements on your part won't surprise me in the future.

	24-04-2004 02:29									#147
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Yes, by name. Why deny the provable?

	24-04-2004 02:34									#148
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Yes, by name. Why deny the provable?

well forgive me if I'm wrong... I just can't recall. But since I call so many morons, "morons", it's quite true that I forget. Recently anyways, I thought many of your posts to be quite intelligent. My general opinion was that you weren't a moron. Maybe this is just a unique situation. Technically, everyone is a moron in some way. I certainly am not above the bounds of idiocy.

	24-04-2004 02:53									#149
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Let us know when you first get above the line.

	24-04-2004 03:19									#150
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I'm not planning to.