16-07-2004 10:50									#121
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I'll try.

I think what I was thinking (though it may have come out sort of strange) is that you don't need to have 1 billion+ population superpowers side by side. I think it's a lot more interesting (and plausible) to have a mixture of large and small countries.

Think about the power gap (if you could call it that) between North and Central America. Or of Switzerland sandwiched between the bickering tribes of Europe.

(Yeah, I suppose the obvious answer is that I could go play an NES. )

Edit: As an aside, why do we demand plausibility in everything except the population numbers? I don't argue that we shouldn't demand plausibility in weapons and economics. I do argue that no-one bats an eyelid when I mention that Karakas' population is equivalent to that of the Earth circa 1950, just because it says so on Jennifer Government.

	16-07-2004 12:41									#122
	Inflate your Upload Space

differing size pops is essential to the feel of the role play, we dont want everyone the same size, it introduces some risks and such forth.

if al lyou arguing is that the numbers presented at NS are too big, we can simply put in a divisor to cut back every nations numbers.

so there fore a nation of 3 bill will become one of 1 bill similar to china . and a nation of 500 mill will become 150 million.

could also devise some sort of slding dividor to cut back the really big much mmore than the really small.

	16-07-2004 15:40									#123
	Put an end to popups!

The way it is now, everyone is a great power. At every crisis ten different countries send a carrier battle group and fifty thousand marines and I suppress the urge to call BS because I know the inevitable answer would be "My population is 3.529 x 10^9 and my economy is Frightening, why can't I?" But a division factor would help!

	17-07-2004 05:20									#124
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I've been thinking and I'm not sure even a division factor would solve the two problems:

Problem #1: The population figures are far too high, which leads to

Problem #2: Everyone is a great power.

If you divide everyone's population by some number, you still have about a dozen countries with an insane numerical superiority. And the population still grows too fast, so that if you recalculate every now and then you return to exactly where you started.

The only way to have some kind of real disparity, real power gaps, and plausible population distributions is to assign each nation or each map region a population.

	17-07-2004 07:36									#125
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You could always use a non-linear 'division factor'

	17-07-2004 08:22									#126
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That doesn't sound like a bad idea; we could say, for example, that the part of the population between 0 and x is halved in value; that between x and 2x is divided by 4; that ebtween 2x and 3x by something higher; and so on. That would even things up greatly, and cut down on the effects of continued growth, because the higher it gets, the less effect it has.

	17-07-2004 15:56									#127
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...But then we'd all be the same size.
Anyhoo, disregard that previous gripe.
GT's ideas' pretty sweet.

	17-07-2004 18:14									#128
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Oh, I see! That does sound rather interesting.

Edit: Let me make sure I understand, though. You divide the hundreds by something, the thousands by something else, and the billions by a third thing? That's not it, is it?

	19-07-2004 15:50									#129
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I think that's sort of it, but not necessarily just in those numbers.

	19-07-2004 15:52									#130
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No, that's not it. The idea is that you divide the population up into segments of whatever, say 100 million. You then divide the first segment by, say, 2, the second one by 3, the third one by 4, etc. Thus someone with 100 million people would be considered to have 50 million, while someone with 200 million would be consider to have 83 million, someone with 400 million to have 108 million, etc.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, you almost had it, you just didn't express it very well.

	19-07-2004 23:34									#131
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certainly a system like that can be put in .. simple enoguh really too..


if we get some agreement in what divsiors to use.

i suggest 0-500 mill / 2

500 mill -1 bill /3

1 bill -2 bill /4

2 bill - 3 bill / 5

3bill + / 6

for this to work though you need to only divide the extra pop by the new figure ,

for example a population of 2.53 bill = 500mill/2 + 500mill/3 + 1 bill/4 + 530mill/5 = 772 Mill a more realistic number


hope that is good

	20-07-2004 03:33									#132
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Could work...
But what about 5 mil. nations?

	20-07-2004 04:09									#133
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How about this?

Creates puny (under 250M NS pop), small (250M-1B NS pop), medium (1B-2B NS pop), and large (2B+ NS pop) nations.

Attachment: image001.png
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

	20-07-2004 05:14									#134
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Question, Flinx: What is in each of those columns in your image? I presume the 10, 3, 5, 2, 6, 8 column contains the dividing factors?

	20-07-2004 07:05									#135
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col 1&2 - NS pop range
col 3 - 'division factor'
col 4 - modified pop from rage if you had max
col 5 - total modified pop

	20-07-2004 07:51									#136
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I don't get it...

	20-07-2004 10:07									#137
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So your effective population is the last column. And when you pass the population range in the first column, you add the effective increase in the fourth column.

eg. For a listed population of under 250e6 your effective population is the range up to 25e6. When your listed population passes 250e6, you add 83.3e6 and your effective population is the range up to 108.3e6.

	20-07-2004 11:53									#138
	Remove this text

I don't get it either, and I fail to see how it simplifies anything as opposed to my proposal.

	20-07-2004 13:51									#139
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Besides, it doesn't really lessen the larger nations' advantage.

	20-07-2004 17:04									#140
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I did exactly what Rasputin did:

0-250 mil /10
250-500 mil /3
500 mil – 1 bil /5
1 bil – 2 bil /2
2 bil – 3 bil /6
3 bil + /8

for example a population of 2.53 bill = 250mil/10 + 250mil/3 + 500mil/5 + 1bil/2 + 530mil/6 = 796.6 Mil a more realistic number

Last edited by Flinx on 20-07-2004 at 17:22

	21-07-2004 03:31									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx I did exactly what Rasputin did

'Nuff sed.

Nobody actually agreed with Raspie, and, besides, the increments are too large.

	21-07-2004 05:18									#142
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus I don't get it either, and I fail to see how it simplifies anything as opposed to my proposal.

I thought it was rather similar to your proposal . . . ?

	21-07-2004 08:23									#143
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A much simpler mechanism is to just raise the populations to some fractional power (and then multiply by a constant, probably, too, to make the numbers realistic).

	21-07-2004 08:30									#144
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus No, that's not it. The idea is that you divide the population up into segments of whatever, say 100 million. You then divide the first segment by, say, 2, the second one by 3, the third one by 4, etc. Thus someone with 100 million people would be considered to have 50 million, while someone with 200 million would be consider to have 83 million, someone with 400 million to have 108 million, etc. EDIT: Now that I look at it, you almost had it, you just didn't express it very well.

NS Pop	Divisor	Modified Pop
100,000,000	2	50,000,000
200,000,000	3	83,333,333
300,000,000	4	108,333,333
400,000,000	5	128,333,333
500,000,000	6	145,000,000
600,000,000	7	159,285,714
700,000,000	8	171,785,714
800,000,000	9	182,896,825
900,000,000	10	192,896,825
1,000,000,000	11	201,987,734
1,100,000,000	12	210,321,068
1,200,000,000	13	218,013,376
1,300,000,000	14	225,156,233
1,400,000,000	15	231,822,899
1,500,000,000	16	238,072,899
1,600,000,000	17	243,955,252
1,700,000,000	18	249,510,808
1,800,000,000	19	254,773,966
1,900,000,000	20	259,773,966
2,000,000,000	21	264,535,870
2,100,000,000	22	269,081,325
2,200,000,000	23	273,429,151
2,300,000,000	24	277,595,818
2,400,000,000	25	281,595,818
2,500,000,000	26	285,441,972
2,600,000,000	27	289,145,675
2,700,000,000	28	292,717,104
2,800,000,000	29	296,165,380
2,900,000,000	30	299,498,713
3,000,000,000	31	302,724,520
3,100,000,000	32	305,849,520
3,200,000,000	33	308,879,823
3,300,000,000	34	311,820,999
3,400,000,000	35	314,678,142
3,500,000,000	36	317,455,920
3,600,000,000	37	320,158,622
3,700,000,000	38	322,790,201
3,800,000,000	39	325,354,304
3,900,000,000	40	327,854,304
4,000,000,000	41	330,293,328

	21-07-2004 08:37									#145
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Why all the space between the quote and the table?

	21-07-2004 08:40									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker A much simpler mechanism is to just raise the populations to some fractional power (and then multiply by a constant, probably, too, to make the numbers realistic).

Indeed!

sqrt(NS Pop) * 5500 gives almost identical numbers to the numbers suggested by GeneralTacticus (above) and is much simpler to calculate.

	21-07-2004 08:41									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Why all the space between the quote and the table?

That is what happens when you use HTML, I have no idea why, always has.

	21-07-2004 09:10									#148
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Weird...

	21-07-2004 11:06									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Flinx Indeed! sqrt(NS Pop) * 5500 gives almost identical numbers to the numbers suggested by GeneralTacticus (above) and is much simpler to calculate.

That would be okay to me.

Opinions, anyone?

	21-07-2004 11:13									#150
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Looks good to me.