28-04-2004 18:53									#91
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I thought Yeltsin affirmed that Russia was on the hook for Soviet Union debts, not the czar's debts.

I think this has proven a proper choice by Yeltsin.

	28-04-2004 18:59									#92
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No, he also affirmed that Russian Federation as successor of both USSR and Russian Empire should repay Tzarist debt, as well.

	28-04-2004 19:01									#93
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You hear that Saras! Time to cash in those bonds you've got.

	28-04-2004 19:05									#94
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Yeltsin agreed to repay Russian Empire+USSR external debt, not internal. Even he is not that supid to fulfil an internal obligations.

Last edited by Serb on 29-04-2004 at 06:20

	28-04-2004 19:17									#95
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quote: Time to cash in those bonds you've got.

Forgeries!

	28-04-2004 19:18									#96
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Are the islands worth that much?

More than that. The one who controls those islands, controls the sea. It's their strategic location what worth, not the lands themselves.

	28-04-2004 19:19									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi That's an awful lot of swampland, Che. We just had a big dustup in Alabaster, where they did exactly what the bill proposes allowing, on behalf of Wal-Mart, and got away with it. Phugging disgusting.

We had a thread about this just a few weeks ago. I made a fool of myself (then, don't I always?) but it still pertains to WM in Alabaster.

	28-04-2004 20:28									#98
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quote: By that logic, the gold is Japan's. Japan has ownership over the gold, so it is Japanese gold.

State borders and property are two vastly different things. For example, you can't take someone's property and then while holding it negotiate a contract for it. Countries always do so for land.

	28-04-2004 20:59									#99
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quote: Stolen, my ass. Those lands belonged to Russia untill Japan stolen them after their war of agression against Russia.

	28-04-2004 21:41									#100
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Well, according to Russian history textbooks, that's probably how it happened.
Actually, I find it very entertaining to read official documents from Russia and China regarding the history of controversial parts of those countries

	28-04-2004 21:43									#101
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What is the history of the Islands btw. What is the old ethnical composition? And did it belong to one empire or the other until a few centuries ago?

	28-04-2004 21:51									#102
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT We had a thread about this just a few weeks ago. I made a fool of myself (then, don't I always?) but it still pertains to WM in Alabaster.

Can't believe I missed that one. The sad thing is I live in a Colonial Properties complex, know the head of Colonial Properties, and can assure you the Alabaster project is going forward because my company just demolished a BP station at the site last Friday. [/threadjack]

	28-04-2004 21:55									#103
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Spiffor: This link has some interesting information

	28-04-2004 22:04									#104
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You hear that Saras! Time to cash in those bonds you've got.

My bonds are external debt so pay up, you thieves! With compound interest!

	28-04-2004 22:08									#105
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Thanks Ingrid

	29-04-2004 04:19									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Stolen, my ass. Those lands belonged to Russia untill Japan stolen them after their war of agression against Russia. If in 2105 Russia will invade Texas, take it from you and if you'll attack Russia later, in 2145 and return Texas back to America, will it be thievery of Russian land "Texas"?

	29-04-2004 04:30									#107
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hey I think I remember in the Ghost In The Shell comic series there was some back history of Russia returning Sakhalin for a small boatload of platinum

fact.. or FICTION?!?

	29-04-2004 06:24									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Stolen, my ass. Those lands belonged to Russia untill Japan stolen them after their war of agression against Russia.

What's so funny?
Was it Russia who attacked first?

	29-04-2004 06:25									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar

You're welcome.

	29-04-2004 11:43									#110
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The Kuril's native population was of Ainu and Japanese descent.

The more I read this thread, the more I say that Japan should give back the gold only if Russia gives back Karafuto island AND the Kuril's.

	29-04-2004 11:49									#111
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They should donate all to charity.

	29-04-2004 12:40									#112
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They should donate it all to me.

Last edited by Flip McWho on 29-04-2004 at 12:48

	29-04-2004 16:13									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan The Kuril's native population was of Ainu and Japanese descent. The more I read this thread, the more I say that Japan should give back the gold only if Russia gives back Karafuto island AND the Kuril's.

PBS (pure bullsh!t)
Russians colonized those lands first.

	29-04-2004 16:24									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Russians colonized those lands first.

*points at Serb and laughs*

	29-04-2004 16:27									#115
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Btw, I bet you also believe that St Petersburg was founded in an uninhabited region, without any Swedish or Finnish settlements

	29-04-2004 19:21									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Btw, I bet you also believe that St Petersburg was founded in an uninhabited region, without any Swedish or Finnish settlements

Grrr... And who inhabited those lands before Sweden?
Ingermanland was historically a Novgorodian province and went to Muscovy after Ivan III's conquest of Novgorod. Was lost to Sweden in the aftermath of Livonian wars. So there were both ugric and russian settlements there, although it was sparcely inhabited.

And yes, Peter the Great has built St. Petersburg there AND transferred the capital there while it was technically still a Swedish territory. A gutsy guy, Peter the Great was, they just don't make guys like him anymore

	29-04-2004 19:25									#117
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quote: Originally posted by ErikM Ingermanland was historically a Novgorodian province and went to Muscovy after Ivan III's conquest of Novgorod.

Exactly
Those Sweden fellows just jealous that it was Russia who buried Sweden as great power.

	29-04-2004 19:26									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid *points at Serb and laughs*

I didn't exepect any other reaction. You can laugh, but you can't deny this simple truth.

	29-04-2004 20:06									#119
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quote: Originally posted by ErikM Grrr... And who inhabited those lands before Sweden? Ingermanland was historically a Novgorodian province and went to Muscovy after Ivan III's conquest of Novgorod. Was lost to Sweden in the aftermath of Livonian wars. So there were both ugric and russian settlements there, although it was sparcely inhabited. And yes, Peter the Great has built St. Petersburg there AND transferred the capital there while it was technically still a Swedish territory. A gutsy guy, Peter the Great was, they just don't make guys like him anymore

The point is that the typical Russian version of how St Petersburg was founded is that the area was totally uninhabited. Even on Discovery they claim so.
I'm just trying to point out how Russian expansion/conquest tends to be described similar to "curious exploration of virgin lands"

	29-04-2004 20:10									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I didn't exepect any other reaction. You can laugh, but you can't deny this simple truth.

No, I will certainly not deny the simple truth that those islands were inhabited by the Ainu people long before the Russians arrived. Just like the Japanese did on the southern islands, the "curious Russian explorers" had to use extensive force towards the Ainu people before they could claim the northern islands as Russian territory