30-04-2004 08:25									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Exactly Those Sweden fellows just jealous that it was Russia who buried Sweden as great power.

Is Russia trying to "bury" everyone?

	30-04-2004 10:19									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Those Sweden fellows just jealous that it was Russia who buried Sweden as great power.

And you're also pissed that Lithuania buried USSR (=Russian Empire) as a great power, eh?

	01-05-2004 06:36									#123
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Actually, it was Russia itself, who buried USSR as great power.

	01-05-2004 06:38									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Is Russia trying to "bury" everyone?

Only the ones who invade us and the ones who are an evil capitalist dogs.

	01-05-2004 06:43									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid No, I will certainly not deny the simple truth that those islands were inhabited by the Ainu people long before the Russians arrived.

Frankychan said: "The Kuril's native population was of Ainu and Japanese descent".
I've said it's PBS, because Russians, not Japanese colonized the islands first.
So, once again. Do you deny this?

	01-05-2004 07:08									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid The point is that the typical Russian version of how St Petersburg was founded is that the area was totally uninhabited. Even on Discovery they claim so. I'm just trying to point out how Russian expansion/conquest tends to be described similar to "curious exploration of virgin lands"

I never heard about this "typical Russian version" and always thought that St. Petersburg was founded on land (Ingermainlandia) which Peter the Great re-captured from Sweden during the Northern War.
I also wasn't in aware that Discovery Chanel is the Russian propaganda machine.

	01-05-2004 07:25									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Is Russia trying to "bury" everyone?

quote: Originally posted by Serb Only the ones who invade us and the ones who are an evil capitalist dogs.

Which is basically everyone

	01-05-2004 08:49									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Actually, it was Russia itself, who buried USSR as great power.

	01-05-2004 08:49									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Only the ones who invade us and the ones who are an evil capitalist dogs.

We're not dogs.

	01-05-2004 09:38									#130
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You are not buried... yet.

	01-05-2004 09:39									#131
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quote: Originally posted by ErikM Which is basically everyone

Well, Cuba for example never invaded Russia.

	01-05-2004 09:39									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278

It's sad, but true.

	01-05-2004 09:39									#133
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They can give gold to me.

	01-05-2004 10:15									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Well, Cuba for example never invaded Russia.

Yet.

	01-05-2004 10:20									#135
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They can give gold to me.

You take the gold and I'll take the women (wait a minute, we're talking about Russia aren't we? )

	01-05-2004 10:56									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Yet.

	01-05-2004 11:37									#137
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How can the Russians have colonized the Kurils first when the Ainu were there before them?

	01-05-2004 11:38									#138
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Why even bother with Serb? He's a certified moron...

	01-05-2004 11:41									#139
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Serb - I just realized your first signature line is incorrect. Bush wasn't the Chief Executive until January 20, 2001. On May 5, 2000 he was still Governor of Texas.

	01-05-2004 15:17									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan How can the Russians have colonized the Kurils first when the Ainu were there before them?

First in comparison with Japanese. I should have said "earlier".

	01-05-2004 15:32									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Why even bother with Serb? He's a certified moron...

FY



And have a nice day.

	01-05-2004 15:34									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I never heard about this "typical Russian version" and always thought that St. Petersburg was founded on land (Ingermainlandia) which Peter the Great re-captured from Sweden during the Northern War. I also wasn't in aware that Discovery Chanel is the Russian propaganda machine.

Apparently Discovery relays information from the glorious Russian propaganda machine

What I was refering to is a program on Discovery about St Petersburg I was watching some time ago. Their reporter was talking about the history of the city and stated (just like my friends from St Petersburg were taught in school) that the region on the Baltic coast where Peter the Great founded the new glorious capitol was previously uninhabited. Well, maybe only Russians count

	01-05-2004 15:36									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Serb - I just realized your first signature line is incorrect. Bush wasn't the Chief Executive until January 20, 2001. On May 5, 2000 he was still Governor of Texas.

But he is now.

More wisdom from this great mind:
http://www.bushisms.com/index1a.html#List

	01-05-2004 19:13									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Apparently Discovery relays information from the glorious Russian propaganda machine

Resistance is futile. You all will be assimilated.

quote: What I was refering to is a program on Discovery about St Petersburg I was watching some time ago. Their reporter was talking about the history of the city and stated (just like my friends from St Petersburg were taught in school) that the region on the Baltic coast where Peter the Great founded the new glorious capitol was previously uninhabited. Well, maybe only Russians count

I don't know it for a fact, but it seems quite likely that the spot of the city itself was uninhabited - St. Petrsburg is built on a swamp, as you probably know

	01-05-2004 19:29									#145
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It was actually quite inhabited
There are several interesting maps here .
I especially like this map , which shows the friendly and peaceful relationship between Sweden and Russia in those days

	01-05-2004 20:02									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid It was actually quite inhabited There are several interesting maps here . I especially like this map , which shows the friendly and peaceful relationship between Sweden and Russia in those days

I stand corrected, then.
But it seems from the maps (which I have not studied in great detail, admittedly) that there was a mixture of russian and finnish settlements there. Names of the villages of Ariska, Makula, Patanka, etc. do not sound particularly Scandinavian to me

OT, I love the language of medieval ancient documents:
"Grand Prince Yurij along with Posadnik <...> and along with all Novgorod hereby and forthwith conclude a Peace with their new-found Brother, Prince of Sweden Manush Orekhovits. <...> And with a Peace being concluded unto all Ages, and with the Holy Cross being so kissed, Grand Prince Yurij along with all Novgorod hereby offer of Love: three Pogosts Sevilaksha, Yaksi, and Ogreba, likewise the Karelian Pogosts."

Offer of Love, no doubt

My favorite piece is the correspondence between Ivan III and Crimean Khan Mangli-Giray (with whom Muscovy was briefly allied during late XV century). They go like this: "Our beloved brother Mangli-Giray, the fairest among the infidels..."

	01-05-2004 20:03									#147
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Sorry for the off-topic, but all this about Russia-Sweden wars and claims have remember me of a argument I'd with a (I'll no say adjetives there but I can think of some) guy the other day, who wanted to state that there genetical differences that makes Eastern Europeans to be evil people (because, you know, the majority of them are criminals) in nature. One of his examples was ... that, for instance, Sweden is a country you know it has a genetical trend to be pacific I guess that guy didn't read anything about Sweden's history, that is.

EDITED: My english is so poor....

	01-05-2004 21:08									#148
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quote: Originally posted by ErikM I stand corrected, then. But it seems from the maps (which I have not studied in great detail, admittedly) that there was a mixture of russian and finnish settlements there. Names of the villages of Ariska, Makula, Patanka, etc. do not sound particularly Scandinavian to me *snip* "Our beloved brother Mangli-Giray, the fairest among the infidels..."

Yeah, there were only a few Swedish settlements, but several hundred Swedes lived in Nyen, right next to where Peter the Great founded his capitol. He definitely had guts

@ Yaroslav: Show that dude this link . Sure, us Swedes have always been peaceful and humble

	01-05-2004 22:25									#149
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Thanks CI for the link. I'll use it (and it's related to my avart too )

	02-05-2004 05:50									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Serb But he is now. More wisdom from this great mind:

Thats nothing compared to what they say about every Russian leader since Kerensky.
(I'd say something about Yeltsin but you Russians already got that covered. )