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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:35
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quote:
Islamic militants praise 'heroic' slaughter of pregnant woman, 4 daughters
Family photo
Tali Khotel is seen here with her four daughters and husband David. Tali, who was 8 months pregnant, and, from left, Hadar, 9, Roni, 7, Hila, 11, and Merav, 2, were killed by Palestinian gunmen Sunday.
Associated Press
May. 3, 2004 08:30 AM
KISSUFIM CROSSING, Gaza Strip - Palestinian militants attacked an Israeli vehicle near a Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, killing four children and their mother, the Israeli army said. Two attackers were killed.
The attack near the entrance to the Gush Katif bloc of settlements came as the ruling Likud Party was holding a referendum on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to pull out of Gaza. It was unclear how the attack would affect the vote.
The militants opened fire - killing the five family members and wounding a motorist in a second vehicle - before detonating a bomb, the army spokesman said.
Two soldiers were wounded by gunfire, and the attackers were killed by return fire, the army said.
Police said the white Citroen station wagon spun off the road after the initial shooting, then the attackers approached the vehicle and shot the occupants at close range.
The car was riddled with bullets, and the carpet inside was stained with blood. Israel Radio reported the mother had been on her way to protest against Sharon's Gaza withdrawal plan. On the car was a bumper sticker saying, "Uprooting the settlements, victory for terror."
Settlers said the family lived in the Katif settlement in central Gaza.
Israel Radio said a car belonging to CNN television had prevented further bloodshed by blocking the road after shooting broke out. There was no immediate comment from CNN.
The militant Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group, claimed responsibility for the "heroic" attack in a call to The Associated Press.
The group said the attack was in response to Israel's recent assassinations of the founder of the Hamas militant group, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, and his successor, Abdel Aziz Rantisi.
"The attack is part of the Palestinian reprisals for the daily crimes committed by the Israeli army against the Palestinian people, especially the killings of Yassin and Rantisi," the group said.
Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz canceled scheduled appearances Sunday and planned to convene with top security officials to plan a response to the attack, military sources said.
The attack was the deadliest on Israeli settlers in Gaza in many months, and it was unclear how it would affect Sunday's vote. Polls have shown voters are closely divided over the withdrawal plan.
Sharon has said his plan would boost Israel's security in the absence of a peace agreement with the Palestinians. His opponents have accused Sharon of caving in to Palestinian militants.
"People have to look us in the eyes and not throw us out of our houses," Avner Shimoni, a Gaza settler leader, told Army Radio. "We paid a very heavy price today."
There has been a spike in Gaza violence since Sharon announced his intentions to exit the territory several months ago, with each side trying to claim victory ahead of a withdrawal.
Israel had gone on high security alert Sunday ahead of the referendum, dividing Gaza into three sections and restricting Palestinian travel. |
http://www.azcentral.com/news/artic...oting03-ON.html
quote:
'There is no one left' - family tragedy marks Mideast violence
May 3, 2004
By Ariel Schalit
Ashkelon, Israel - David Hatuel wept in front of five mounds of brown soil, the fresh graves of his pregnant wife and four daughters - his entire family.
"I am all alone, there is no one left," he said in a whisper.
Hatuel's family was shot dead by Palestinian gunmen as they drove from their home in a Gaza Strip settlement to the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon yesterday - where they were buried five hours later.
The deadly ambush came as members of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's Likud Party voted on his plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip.
Tali Hatuel (34) - who was eight months pregnant - was on the way with her four children, Hila (11); Hadar (9); Roni (7); and Merav (2); to campaign against the plan when two Palestinian gunmen opened fire on the car, sending it skidding off the road.
The gunmen ran toward the car shooting the occupants again and again at almost point blank range, the army and witnesses said.
TV footage showed rescue workers sifting through the white Citroen station wagon, a poster reading "A Jewish heart votes no" plastered across the car hood.
A medic wiped blood off a baby seat, two small bright pink shoes lay on the blood-soaked carpet of the bullet-riddled car.
Settlers and opponents of the Sharon plan have said a withdrawal from Gaza would be a reward for attacks like these. A bumper sticker on the back of the car read "Uprooting the settlements - a victory for terror".
At the funeral, David Hatuel apologised to his family for spending so much time away from them campaigning against the plan to uproot the Gaza homes.
"Only on Friday, the girls drew me a picture and said 'Daddy, we are so proud of you for working so hard to save our home," he said, calling his daughters, his "flowers".
"Tali," he said, "everything I have, everything I did, I did for her."
Tali Hatuel was a social worker and counselled the families of victims from attacks by Palestinian militants, friends said.
"She was quiet and shy ... she was a very serious person," her neighbour Ezra Haidu said.
The militant Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance Committees, an umbrella group, claimed responsibility for what it called the "heroic" attack.
"The blood of the holy warriors will be united to become bombs of death and fear in the hearts of the enemy," read a statement on the Web site of the Popular Resistance Committee.
Twenty-six-year-old Faisal Abu Naqira and a fellow Islamic Jihad militant were credited with the fatal attack.
In Gaza City, about 1 500 people joined an Islamic Jihad march celebrating the attack. Islamic Jihad said the attack was in response to Israel's assassination of Hamas leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz Rantisi.
"The goal of this attack was to confirm the continuation of the resistance," said Khader Habib, an Islamic Jihad leader in Gaza.
Last night, an Israeli helicopter fired three missiles at a 14-storey Palestinian building in the middle of Gaza City in revenge for the Hatuel family killings. - Reuters
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http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?...rticleId=424275
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
If the Palestinians as a whole would have used non-violent means of resisting, Isreal would have had to have backed down many years ago. As long as they behave like animals they will be hunted as such including the innocents among them. |
If the Israelis as a whole would have stopped invading, the Palestinians would have had to have backed down many years ago. As long as they behave like conquerors, they will be hunted as such including the innocents among them.
Thanks for the figure, TMM. I hope they're true.
For the matter: I consider the attack on those children to be completely vile. I am glad the Hamas could not* get more than 1,500 people to march in support of these murderers (when you have as many people directly adhering to your organization as the Hamas, 1,500 really isn't that much: it's mostly the active members and family, not the average joe).
However, I can feel no sympathy for the adult settlers. They have chosen to live a life that is more difficult in all regards for the sake of nationalism. They have dropped their old life to come live in harsh conditions because they believe in Eretz Israel. I actually consider adult settlers (not born in the settlement) to be valid targets, even more than soldiers, because they chose to come to the war zone and to wage the war.
*edit: forgot the "not"
Last edited by Spiffor on 04-05-2004 at 14:54
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
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quote:
Maybe the 67 borders need some adaptation, but almost all settlements are new, and almost all adult inhabitants chose to come to live there. It's pure conquest, and the adult settlers are active, willing conquerors.
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besides the fricking point. You once again connected the violence in the region to the 67' war, which is bull. The violent nationalist arab palestinians were violent prior to 67' (and 48' for that matter). The peaceful population was peaceful after 67' as well.
Did you know that the was no on-the-ground occupation by Israeli troops until 93', but there was a local self-administration, with palestinian policemen, judges, etc. ? It was abolished with the establishment of the PA. yes, I was shocked when I discovered this, as well. I am not saying that Israel should cling on to the territories, however I saying that the nationalist, and islamist elements in the territories are not going for the territories' independence. They want it all.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
besides the fricking point. You once again connected the violence in the region to the 67' war, which is bull. The violent nationalist arab palestinians were violent prior to 67' (and 48' for that matter). The peaceful population was peaceful after 67' as well. |
I don't connect violence to 67. I know very well violence begun prior to 48, and exploded in 48.
However, in my view settlements are probably the main reason why the average Rachid can support either his corrupt Arafat administration, or extremist people who mostly manage to bring more missiles in his neighbourhood.
That's because settlements are recent. That's because settlements are in the heart of Palestinian territories. That's because settlements forbid Palestinians to travel freely in their territory. That's because settlements use heaps of water. That's because settlements are chock-full of hated Israeli soldiers. That's because settlements are the very humiliation many Palestinians get to see every day. That's because settlements, by their very nature, is a danger to every Palestinian living in the area.
This is not an abstract idea of the "good borders". This is something of daily life. The Settlers are probably the Israelis that are the most devoted to the cause of war and hatred.
quote:
Did you know that the was no on-the-ground occupation by Israeli troops until 93', but there was a local self-administration, with palestinian policemen, judges, etc. ? It was abolished with the establishment of the PA. yes, I was shocked when I discovered this, as well. I am not saying that Israel should cling on to the territories, however I saying that the nationalist, and islamist elements in the territories are not going for the territories' independence. They want it all. |
I know the nationalists want it all (at least all the extremist ones, the pragmatic may have accepted the existence of Israel, just like many Likuddites have accepted the principle of a Palestinian State). But the average Rachid is different; he may not want to die for this kind of abstaction if he can finally live in safety, and without a constant humiliation exerted upon him.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
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quote:
I don't connect violence to 67. I know very well violence begun prior to 48, and exploded in 48.
However, in my view settlements are probably the main reason why the average Rachid can support either his corrupt Arafat administration, or extremist people who mostly manage to bring more missiles in his neighbourhood.
That's because settlements are recent. That's because settlements are in the heart of Palestinian territories. That's because settlements forbid Palestinians to travel freely in their territory. That's because settlements use heaps of water. That's because settlements are chock-full of hated Israeli soldiers. That's because settlements are the very humiliation many Palestinians get to see every day. That's because settlements, by their very nature, is a danger to every Palestinian living in the area.
This is not an abstract idea of the "good borders". This is something of daily life. The Settlers are probably the Israelis that are the most devoted to the cause of war and hatred. |
Again, presuming, of course, a mostly homegrown resistance, not injected from the outside. The settlements aren't recent ( unless you call 25-30 years recent). Most of their population are peaceful secular people who commute to Tel-Aviv to work. In Gaza the situation is different, yes, but Gaza isn't really debatable. We never wanted it, and in the long run we'll get rid of it, one way or the other, (despite the temporary Likud member idiocy) Most Likud voters support a withdrawal from Gaza.
quote:
I know the nationalists want it all (at least all the extremist ones, the pragmatic may have accepted the existence of Israel, just like many Likuddites have accepted the principle of a Palestinian State).
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You see, I am not so sure of that! They want the right of return, and that's like wanting it all, really.
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But the average Rachid is different; he may not want to die for this kind of abstaction if he can finally live in safety, and without a constant humiliation exerted upon him. |
This is very true, sadly. But what the ordinary person thinks in Gaza weighs very little.
Oh, and is Rachid a general name for a muslim arab? please stop, I don't think it's polite. ( like using Ahmed, bleh)
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Felch
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Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by dannubis
i didn't hear this outrage when a rocket hit a car in a crowded street and a four year old palestinian girl was blown away...
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This may not gel with your worldview, but a rocket targeting a militant in a crowded street is different from a bullet targeting children and a pregnant woman on a deserted road.
Morality is more about the intentions of the actions, and the purpose they are intended to serve rather than a cold-blooded analysis of the end result. No one can totally know the end result of our actions before an event, but we can be aware of our intent and reasons, and we can also take measures to control the consequences. To intend to attack an avowed enemy is different from intending to attack an innocent little girl, or any civilian. Over the course of the conflict, Israelis have shown more moral consideration than the Palestinians have.
I don't buy the, "It's okay to murder settlers, because they're involved in the conquest." People should be free to live their lives as and where they choose, so long as they abide by the law. Nobody should ever say it's acceptable to kill a civilian just because they followed an invading army. By that perverse and twisted logic, Native Americans should be able to kill European and other Americans, and Aborigines kill Australians.
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04-05-2004 13:36
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