 |
| |
|
|
Trip
|
 |
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
|
|
The vote seems to be heavily in favor of attacking GWT soon with the goal of destroying Ruhrpott, their FP city, delivering them an irreperable economic blow. Now is when we start planning how this baby is going to go.
Considering rushing boats into question, we can come up with 12 ships (appears to be 11 Caravels and 1 Galley) ready to launch in 12 turns for a cost of ~250 for rushing. We can add a 13th for another ~80-90g. Keep in mind that all Galleys will also have to be upgraded - 8 of the 11 Caravels for a cost of 160g.
11 Caravels and 1 Galley gives us 35 cargo space. Subtract 1 for the Settler and we have 34 to work with. Assuming we go with DeepO's idea about having a two-wave strike (more on that in a bit), we will probably want, say, 8 Muskets and 26 Knights. Quite a nice force we're talking about.  We have 12 Knights currently, with 2 more likely being built. That means we will need 12 more Horsemen built and then upgraded for a cost of 960g. The 8 Muskets can be upgraded from our current NM contingent for 60g each, that being 480g.
Total amount for upgrades is 1600. Plus rushing and we get a total pricetag of around 1850 gold.
We shove off from the Incensity launching point (Inc 9-9-9) in 12 turns (including the current turn). We will have Astronomy in 3 turns and Navigation should take 8 more (completing on the 12th turn, the turn we leave). At our current pace, we are generating 41 GPT. Over the course of 11 turns that ends up being 451g of our own (in addition to the 443g we have now). That's 894g that we by ourselves will generate. This means we will need another ~1000 gold from CGN and CFC. In my talks with Donovan Zoi from CFC he said that CFC alone could provide 800g of their own within 10 turns. CGN can provide 120 per turn (currently, until they lose more cities) This means gold should not be too much of a problem.
Finding places to come up with those 12 Horsemen is the responsibility of E_T.  Mingapulco alone can do 4 of them after it finishes its current Knight, Banana can do 3. The other 5 have to come from somewhere else.
That is the economic side of things. Won't be too hard to pull off.  I'll leave the detail-hammering-out to E_T though, since he seems to enjoy it so much. 
Last edited by Trip on 06-05-2004 at 06:55
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Trip
|
|
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
|
|
The actual operation itself begins in 12 turns. We finish Navigation at the start of that turn, allowing our Galleys and Caravels to enter ocean tiles for the first time. The target is the Egyptian peninsula where Ruhrpott and GWT's 2nd core is located.
Here is an image of the plan as it stands currently:
The white and green dots are the points at which our navy would pass through each turn - 1 through 4, with 1 being the turn we get Navigation; or turns 12 through 16 from now) The yellow shaded area is the visibility of a forted GWT Galley at EVERY coastal tile (so we have no guarantee of being seen at all, those are simply the potential sighting tiles) - the main concern would be a GWT Galley forted AT point 4, as it would be able to see our fleet at point 3. Point 4 is also the final debarkation point for our invasion force, and we then land our first wave 6 of that tile (4-4 of Ruhrpott) at the debarkation point. The following turn whatever survives in addition to the 2nd wave a turn behind can then attack Ruhrpott and hopefully capture and raze the city.
As I just mentioned, this is a 2-wave operation.
The first wave is designed to land on turn 4 and hold the tile until the next turn when we are able to attack. Because of this goal, its primary composition should be defensive units, namely Muskets. Additionally, a Settler will be an important part of this wave because it allows us a potential place to heal, some extra culture after Ruhrpott is razed allowing us the use of some extra road tiles, and most importantly of all - a location to land units with full use of their movement. This is the key facet of the second wave. The proposed composition of the first wave is 8 Muskets, 6 Knights, and 1 Settler. This is 15 units out of the total of 35 that we will be sending for this operation.
The second wave is designed as the real muscle behind the invasion. It includes the remaining 20 slots of our transport capacity, all 20 of them being Knights. After the first wave weathers the storm on turn 4, this wave, up to a total of 1 full turn behind, will use the boats and move into the city. The Knights will then be awakened and have full movement capability, which is what we need to be able to strike at Ruhrpott. The remaining offensive pieces of the first wave join those of the second (hopefully all 26 Knights), take Ruhrpott and then raze the city.
We then have two options - retreat with what we have left, content that our effort has achieved total victory and destroyed a large segment of the production and trade capability, or we can continue rampaging, destroying other cities and possibly fighting the main GWT army.
The first option is safer, as it gets in, gets out and then lives to fight (and possibly land elsewhere...) another day. The goal of the operation complete, we leave having won and begin planning the final doomsday wave to end this game once and for all.
The second option has the potential to do much more damage, especially if GWT gets another leader somehow and has the capability of rebuilding their FP quickly. However, one of the problems is that the more we fight over there the more chances we give GWT to get a leader...
A dilemma indeed.
The Diversion
But do not forget, we have other options as well... namely, our neighbors CFC! They have a fair number of boats themselves, and DZ has been concentrating on building up a Rider force. While it's likely they don't have many now, they could probably get a good 8 or 10 ready by the time we want to invade. Additionally, CFC could upgrade some Muskets and send them all off and land them on some GWT mountain. That would really cause GWT a headache... a simultaneous attack on both their 2nd core Ruhrpott and on the opposite side of their empire with CFC stirring up trouble.
A potential real target for CFC to go after would be Flammburg and Leo's Workshop. However, it's rather well tucked away, and I don't see CFC having much chance at razing the city before GWT could unleash the full fury of their Ansar upon them. CFC could also land further north by GWT's core, hoping to land a crushing blow there as we hit Ruhrpott. Or they could simply be another headache for GWT.
Last edited by Trip on 06-05-2004 at 10:21
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Arnelos
|
 |
of the Free World
Sep 2002
time: 00:35
|
|
Trip,
Just read your operational post.
I love most of your stuff for the Apolyton plans excepting one minor problem. What do we do if there is, indeed, a GWT or GCA galley sitting at Point #4? They'll get 1-turn warning of our approach AND we'll have to kill the galley (likely costing us 1-2 of our own ships filled with our units). Obviously, we attack anyhow and just take the losses, but is there any way to minimize this danger? I figure it unlikely to minimize that danger, but I'd just like to go fishing for any bright ideas anyone might have.
The only other comment I can think of right now is an idea based upon the talk I just had with Octavian X and from talking to you...
You know, we could use CFC's 3-move Riders to our advantage here. Unlike us, they can land a force of riders fairly near the the GWT core and rush for Partemunde or another major GWT city and hope to sack it (if they hit it with everything and go for broke) before GWT arrives. If they do that, it would be a complete sacrifice of units, probably only for a couple cities, but it could be far more devastating than even the loss of the FP alone.
It's at least worth contemplating.
At this point, we need to just do as much brainstorming as possible.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Trip
|
|
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arnelos
Trip,
Just read your operational post.
I love most of your stuff for the Apolyton plans excepting one minor problem. What do we do if there is, indeed, a GWT or GCA galley sitting at Point #4? They'll get 1-turn warning of our approach AND we'll have to kill the galley (likely costing us 1-2 of our own ships filled with our units). Obviously, we attack anyhow and just take the losses, but is there any way to minimize this danger? I figure it unlikely to minimize that danger, but I'd just like to go fishing for any bright ideas anyone might have. |
Well, to be perfectly honest if this were the case then we'd basically just have to suck it up and attack as you said. In order to SEE us coming GWT will need to have a Galley FORTIFIED there. So even if they do have a ship there the turn we land the chances of them seeing us are even slimmer than them having anything there.
The plus side is that there's a lot of water over there and the chances of GWT having a Galley on that tile at any given moment are very low. ESPECIALLY given the fact that if GWT is building Galleys with their cities over there and sending them south, this particular tile would be OUT OF THE WAY for a Galley going towards the front. They'd have to be extremely, *ahem*, "lucky" in order to spot us coming or to have anything in our way when it matters.
quote:
The only other comment I can think of right now is an idea based upon the talk I just had with Octavian X and from talking to you...
You know, we could use CFC's 3-move Riders to our advantage here. Unlike us, they can land a force of riders fairly near the the GWT core and rush for Partemunde or another major GWT city and hope to sack it (if they hit it with everything and go for broke) before GWT arrives. If they do that, it would be a complete sacrifice of units, probably only for a couple cities, but it could be far more devastating than even the loss of the FP alone.
It's at least worth contemplating.
At this point, we need to just do as much brainstorming as possible. |
Correct, I'm currently looking at different possible landing sites for CFC.
One possibility is on the mountains just east of Sacknasenhausen, one of GWT's largest cities. CFC can barely sneak by the visible area of GWT's borders by wrapping around just west of the desert peninsula. They then move north and land on the mountain 6-9 of Sacknasenhausen. We know that Parthemünde is also in the area, and depending on its exact location we may have a shot at that city along with Webringen from that landing site.
Another possibility is nearby Anja, probably on the hill 7 of the city. This site also gives CFC a good shot at taking out some GWT cities nearby, including Parthemünde again.
The final landing site I was looking at was the mountains just SE of Wüstenblau. From there CFC can take out Wüstenblau, Eumelsand and perhaps with some luck, Flammburg as well. Though I would think that GWT will be able to react fast enough to prevent their Leo's city from being captured.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DeepO
|
 |
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:35
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
The first wave is designed to land on turn 4 and hold the tile until the next turn when we are able to attack. Because of this goal, its primary composition should be defensive units, namely Muskets. Additionally, a Settler will be an important part of this wave because it allows us a potential place to heal, some extra culture after Ruhrpott is razed allowing us the use of some extra road tiles, and most importantly of all - a location to land units with full use of their movement. This is the key facet of the second wave. The proposed composition of the first wave is 8 Muskets, 6 Knights, and 1 Settler. This is 15 units out of the total of 35 that we will be sending for this operation.
The second wave is designed as the real muscle behind the invasion. It includes the remaining 20 slots of our transport capacity, all 20 of them being Knights. After the first wave weathers the storm on turn 4, this wave, up to a total of 1 full turn behind, will use the boats and move into the city. |
A few remarks:
- it is probably better to include a few more knights in the force. However, too many, and GWT will choose to move everything in its FP city, instead of attacking the stack (which it should, ideally. our muskets are just cannon fodder)
- if ship chaining is allowed (it is, right?), the second wave would be ideally 1 turn +1 tile behind. The ships from the first wave can ferry all second wave units across. This is ideal as it masks our intention as long as possible, if GWT has any ships in the neighborhood, they will certainly scout for reinforcements, as nobody is going to attack with only 15 units. But in order for this to succeed, you need as many ships in the first wave as there are in the second.
- both things combined: use [edit: correction: 8] muskets, [8] knights and a settler in the first wave, and 18 reinforcements in the second. First wave is a credible invasion force for precision strikes while being too hard to utterly destroy in one turn, the second wave will almost certainly capture Ruhrpot.
- last comment: have the empty spot (if there is any) in the caravel / galley not taken up with the settler, in case a ship is present on point 4, it needs to be attacked with something, with as little risk as possible to lose important units. Also, have at least 1 ship of the second wave at point 3 together with first wave, so that in case something unforeseen happens it can replace part of the first wave.
DeepO
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Togas
|
 |
California
Jun 2002
time: 21:35
|
|
Something that was discussed in chat that I'd like to repeat here:
We need to remember that GWT does not know our intentions when we land. Surely, they will know that we have hostile intentions, but they don't know if we're there to conquer, destroy, or distract. Their military reaction will be different depending on which of the three they think we're undergoing.
For example: If we come to conquer. They would choose to destroy cities (if they don't think they can retake them) instead of allowing us to have them. If they think we're there to destroy, they'll move to protect their most important holdings. If they think it's a distraction, they'll send only an appropriate supression force with little interruption on their building plans.
While it may be ideal for them to think it's a distraction, we're sending too many forces and we're building a city on the landing spot. Those actions are more indicative of a long-term campaign or conquest.
Therefore, I believe that it is in our interest for them to believe that we are out to conquer their cities. This would cause them to try to defend them all or (better yet) retreat military units out and regroup them to counter attack when their fast movers return. This may also cause them to destroy cities they cannot protect so that we cannot capture them. It may also cause them to cut roads to slow down our advance.
We need to, in effect, use pscyhological warfare and disinformation to our advantage. We should definately build a landing city and name is something that invokes a conquest theme. We also need to make a large showing of force and at the same time cloak our actual number of units so that it appears we are trying to keep them from seeing how many units we have. We may want to capture multiple cities at the landing zone and hold them for a few turns (only if we believe they are safe from counter attack) to give a showing of our intention to capture, not to destroy. We could later destroy them all on the same turn we destroy Ruhrpott.
In addition, if CFC also lands some troops on the other side of the continent, it will give a stronger illusion that we're out to conquer GWT, and it may also counter attack to CFC and not us, allowing us more time to destroy.
Ultimately, we should destroy as much as possible and then run. We don't need GWT to have chances at new leaders to rebuild their FP. Our goal will be to tear their country apart and do as much damage as possible. After this invasion, we are not going to get another chance at this. We have to make this one count.
--Togas
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.
Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
06-05-2004 05:43
|