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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Viconia. Hmmm...
Nice character, hot babe.... BUT.
But she's just so weak. She has a crappy STR, crappy Thac0, and can only get 1 attack per round, not to mention that simply adding her to the party gives you a -2 rep, so you need to drop her and re-add her every time you buy something (I mean 20% savings here, folks) |
I disagree. She has high wisdom, I don't use my Cleric in the front line, they're for spells and ranged support usually, and with an evil party, to RP it at all having a rep above 18 would be heinous, not to mention people leave.
Anomen has a crap wisdom, and Jaheria's isn't so good either. Plus Jaheira needs a strength enhancing item to be any good upfront. Add to that that Viccy's a pure Cleric, so goes up much quicker, and to a higher level, than either of the other two, and her turn undead actually turns them to your side, and she's easily the best healer in the game, IMHO.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Jaheria the same, although she's a Druid, so not quite as good because of the huge 1,5000,000 EXP needed for levelling 14 -> 15, this is kind of balanced by the fact she can get the Fighter HLAs which are rather good (unlike the clerical ones) and Nature's Beauty is a great spell  |
It's 13-14 that is 1,500,000 Exp. Which is why she can never be master of a Druid grove.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
So, of the clerical choices in BG2, I'm not sure why you think Viconia is the best. Single class clerics are rather poor. |
I disagree. Single clerics go up the most levels and get the best spells (much better than Druid ones IMHO). Holy Smite is brilliant for a good party (it doesn't hurt them, but hurts most enemies). With an evil party, I always use Virconia. With a good party I don't, because I like to RP, but she's the best Cleric IMHO. She also has a fantastic dexterity, which means she's hard to hit, and very very accurate with a sling. With 2 or 3 fighters, there's not need for another up front warrior. She's good from range, hard to hit, gets more spells (wisdom and levels) and the best spells (cleric). If you want her up front, which I don't, you can get the Mauler's arm very early on, which gives her strength 18. Plus a use for Crom Fayer, which otherwise rarely get's used (Korgan or Virconia only really, all others seem to use bladed weapons).
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:35
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I forgot the 65% magic resistance too. She really is a class act, IMHO.
My party atm has just reached Spellhold Dungeon. My Main Character is an upfront, Ranger (level 7 IIRC) dualed to a Cleric (level 15 IIRC). He dual wields Flail of Ages or Mace of Disruption (+2) and Wyverns Tail, has Balduran's Plate, and 19 in STR, WIS, DEX and CON, and 24 (with items) CHA. Minsc and Keldorn are both level 13, Minsc with Lilacor and Heartseeker, Keldorn with Carsomyr, Giant Hair Crossbow and Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. Jahiera is level 11/13 and has Belm, Sling of Seeking and Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. Imoen just joined, with Staff of the Magi and Tuirum's (sp?) bow. With cloak of non-detection, and a staff that makes her invisible, she's a good scout, espedcially if she borrows Drogue's boots of speed  Kelsey finishes off the team, and reminded me how good a Sorceror is. He's level 13 IIRC, and has Robe of Vecna, some nice darts, sling+3 and Staff of Rhyn.
Drogue's a Vampire/Undead hunter, in RP. With MoD+2, racial enemy of Vampire, spells all chosen to kill undead (false dawn, sol's searing orb, holy smite, etc) and high level turn undead, he's pretty good. I reckon my party could go toe to toe with just about any foe now, since they're set up top be able to change tactics to kill anything. Shangular was no problem at all (died before he could cast a spell), vampire's die on hit with the MoD, and mages are vulnerable to the Khelbern's/Dispel Magic/Breach combi. I can't remember the last thing that lasted more than a round or two. The only thing I'm going to have a problem with until the end of the Underdark (as far as I've ever gone) is Illuthids. Are there any good strategies for these, baring many potions of genius?
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:35
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DoY: Virconia is also an NPC in BGII, like Minsc and Jaheira. Mauler's Arm is a BGII weapon. In fact, aside from changing Khalid+Dynaheir spoiler(highlight to read):
who die at the begining of BGII
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for Keldorn and Kelsey, my BGI and BGII parties are the same. Minsc, Jahiera, Imoen and Drogue all went through both, and I even altered Minsc and Jaheira to be the same as I left them at the end of BGI (slightly different proficiencies and HP), to make the transition more realistic
Also, some other BGI NPCs make and entrance, like Tiax and Ajantis, although they don't join you.
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Dry
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Brussels
Sep 2000
time: 06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
So that's either waste a STR item on someone that's only going to swing once a round, and probably miss, or continually buff her. |
I give her the sling +3.
The Seeker +2 (strength bonus) sling goes to Jaheira (2 stars with sling + strength bonus items)
For armor... there are enough light magical armor for her. Just remember to study a few Armor of faith and she'll be fine.
quote:
although since Anomen can cast all the same spells while also fighting in the front line... |
I repeat, Viccy is my second choice. Anomen is my first, but he is too powerfull and I don't like his personality.
Give me the choice between Anomen and Nalia's aunty and I'll wave my private parts at ... well I hesitate... really.
quote:
Well, you see my point. Clerics in 2nd Edition are nice to have in the party, but noone ever wanted to play one.
-Jam |
Clerics were never my fav, whatever the edition. In BG2 pure clerics are more than just nice have when you reach level 15+, where, against the magic resistant baddies Mage spells start to fade and Cleric spells (bolt of glory, Fire Storm) start to rule.
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J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
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Someone was asking about use of scripts in the last thread, and I'm fairly sure the SuperScript is the best one around, which you can get at the yahoo group InfinityScripters (versions for BG1 and 2). The author says he was able to solo through BG2 using it for all combat with almost no user intervention.
I've been testing it this evening, and though it is pretty good - good enough to face the types of opponents encountered in the normal game, it's somewhat hopeless against the enemy AI scripts I've written myself. My late-ToB party, with maximal pre-combat protections, was defeated by 4 out of 5 of the tough opponents (all 8.5MXP spellcasters of one type or another with varying degrees of cheese attached) I've tried them against so far (seperately), and defeated fairly soundly too.
Of course, these enemy AI scripts can be lethal, and I can't usually defeat them myself without either using absurdly cheesy tactics or else getting at least one party member gibbed and most of the rest dying (some 2 or 3 times...) but still, I had hoped for more, and I guess the script is insufficient to get you through tactics.
Personally, I find letting a script rule my characters take smost of the fun out of the game, but playing around with this one is interesting (even if only because I can have fun gloating that my scripts are better  ). If you want to use a comprehensive script, I think this is the one to go for.
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J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
@J Bytheway : Can you send me your enemy AI scripts, or post them here? I'd love to have a look. If they are indeed better than the cheating cheese of the Tactics improved mage scripts (illegal sequencers OnSpawn? Why how elegant!) then I'll give them a bash. |
Well, the way I make them better is to use the detectable spells (there's a long story behind the detectable spells, but the short of it is that I put together the most recent version and it allows for much better AI).
I need to put together a new distribution of the detectable spells with my most recent changes, and I'll post it here when I do (probably this evening some time). It includes, as an example, the "Improved Mages" script which fulfills basically the same role as the tactics bit that does the same thing. I do supply free buffs upon spawning, but only fairly mild ones (actually pretty much the same ones that tactics gives...), and there are no illegal contingencies or triggers besides that. There are other cheats in the tactics script which I don't use. Mostly the script is just much cleverer - it virtually never casts a spell which has no effect on its target at all. I also cut out the spell liches got for recalling the party and removing their prot undead, but even *with* prot undead on all my party, one of the liches managed to survive for about 9-12 rounds against them (although he didn't hurt any of them).
Anyway, if you're interested in the scripting methods for their own sake, I've attached another example - the script that was running the people I was testing the SuperScript against. jbcounci.pbf is the source for my own custom compiler, and jbcounci.baf is the source for the normal ToB compiler. You can't actually compile either without the detectable spells, but it demonstrates the concept. This one script runs 5 different charachters (of different classes) and all their summons so it's a little convoluted, but it should be fairly simple to figure out roughly what's going on (at least if you look at the .pbf version, rather than the .baf version, since the latter has no comments). This is the script which I based the general mages script on (this one performs rather better because I was able to make sensible spell choices for the people running it).
The references the the 'Council' are just because I was idly thinking about putting this together into a complete mod (in the same vein as The Ritual for tactics, etc.).
To give you an idea of the differences, compare the conditions on the triggers for casting Magic Missile:
In original BG2 scripts it looks something like this:
code:
IF
HaveSpell(WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
Spell(NearestEnemyOf(Myself),WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
END
In the tactics improved mages it's:
code:
IF
GlobalTimerExpired("Cast","LOCALS")
HaveSpell(WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
!HasItemEquiped("CLCK26",LastSeenBy(Myself)) // Cloak of Mirroring
!RandomNum(20,0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobalTimer("Cast","LOCALS",6)
Spell(LastSeenBy(Myself),WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
END
In my mages script:
code:
IF
HaveSpell(WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
OR(2)
!GlobalTimerNotExpired("JB_Action", "LOCALS")
CheckStatGT(Myself, 0, AURACLEANSING)
!StateCheck(LastSeenBy(Myself), STATE_IMPROVEDINVISIBILITY)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, SANCTUARY)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, MINORGLOBE)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, WIZARD_SPELL_TURNING)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, SPELL_DEFLECTION)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, WIZARD_SPELL_TRAP)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, WIZARD_OTILUKES_RESISLIENT_SPHERE)
!StateCheck(LastSeenBy(Myself), STATE_INVISIBLE)
CheckStatLT(LastSeenBy(Myself), 50, RESISTMAGIC)
CheckStatLT(LastSeenBy(Myself), 51, MAGICDAMAGERESISTANCE)
CheckStatLT(Myself, 60, SPELLFAILUREMAGE)
!HasItemEquiped("CLCK26", LastSeenBy(Myself))
!CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 6, WIZARD_SPELL_IMMUNITY)
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(Myself), 0, WIZARD_SHIELD)
Global("JB_ImprisonmentThisTimeStop", "LOCALS", 0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobalTimer("JB_Action", "LOCALS", 6)
Spell(LastSeenBy(Myself), WIZARD_MAGIC_MISSILE)
END
Most of the additional checks are made possible by the detectable spells.
Anyway, I'll try to cut myself off because I have a tendancy to go on and on about my own creations, especially when it provides an excuse to stop working .
 Attachment: councilscripts.rar
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Cool  I'll have a poke around after tea. I was thinking of doing something to check fire resistance before casting fire spells, breath attacks etc, but the number of items to look for put me off (and I am a lazy git) |
As to laziness, as you can see from my sources, my custom compiler lets me use macros and other such things which simplify the script-writing process considerably .
quote:
unless you think :
CheckStat(LastSeenBy(oMonster), 101, RESISTFIRE)
would make sure that the character wouldn't actually be healed by it? |
Well,
CheckStatLT(LastSeenBy(oMonster), 101, RESISTFIRE)
would work, but you'd at least want to reduce 101 to 100 since at 100 no damage or healing will be done, so it's not worth it (Well, actually you still get spell disruption, so it might be worthwhile against spellcasters, but generally you might as well use another spell which will do a different type of damage to actually hurt the target and also desrupt their casting).
quote:
Hmmm...
I'm not sure I want the mages too smart though, I'd like to have a chance. The human player can beat a level 35 mage with a level 12 party as it is, but if the mage is smartened, the human should be without a chance...  |
Well, the party I was using for my tests was the protagonist (lvl 36 Cleric), Solaufein (lvl 21/19), Sarevok (lvl 27), Valygar (lvl 29), Kelsey (lvl 26) and Imoen (lvl 7/24). They were massacred by each of a level 20/28 Vampire Mage/Thief, a level 31 Lich Sorcerer and a level 31 Illithid Enchanter, but defeated the level 22/23 human Cleric/Mage, all running that script I attached above.
With tactical play I can defeat these opponents (except maybe the Illithid - he's seriously annoying... You can be on the receiving end of Time Stop/Intelligence Drain cheese) with many casualties, and with cheesy play I can win more easily (The best method I've found being nested Time Stops to exhaust their Prot Magic Weapons and Shapechange for intelligence drain - something which will work against every enemy in the entire game except those immune to Time Stop, and those who you can't kill that way because it breaks the plotline, like Abazigal).
I don't think a level 35 mage would have any difficulty against a level 12 party unless they used the most excessive of cheese. Given the necessary exits, someone playing solo could use the exploit of escaping to another map every time a spell is cast to cancel it, but that's quite difficult to achieve (I know, because I've done it), especially if you're vulnerable to 1-segment cast, instant effect spells like Power Word: Stun/Kill...
Even with the party under Protection from Undead, the Lich sorcerer could still summon up Dark Planetars (being the AI, he has no one-at-a-time limit). I doubt that's what the script would currently make him do, but I've seen stranger emergent behaviour from it, so I don't know. It's certainly a better (meaning, more realistic and less cheesy) counter-tactic to the use of such scrolls than the one the tactics improved mages use.
My initial assumption, based on experience with the normal game, would be that it would take a bunch of these high-level mages to threaten the party at this stage of ToB, but when I'd written them they turned out to be much meaner than I had expected...
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J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Some kind of trigger would be good on the lines of if the mob takes any damage, it actively seeks out the PC....
Ummm... you can force it with an OnDamaged script to Get the attacker and force attack them, even if they are off screen... but that's making the AI cheat to compete. If only there was a way to make them run about at random if they took damage from off screen... |
They already should do exactly that . I haven't tested that exactly, but when I attack liches under Protection from Undead they run around at random, which is more or less the same thing.
quote:
I mean, your script is good, but I don't see what's stopping my favorite cheese of mass Cloudkills cast from offscreen... |
Randomwalking is about the best you can do here without making the AI cheat quite badly with something like a MoveToObject(Player1), but it's still pretty hopeless except in a wide open area, because the target is unlikely to escape the Cloudkill, let alone find the party...
quote:
Anyway I don't want to critisise it untill I've tried it in action, that would be unfair. |
Thanks.
If you want the details, then in the mages script this trigger activates them upon damage:
code:
IF
OR {
Detect([GOODCUTOFF])
TookDamage()
AttackedBy([GOODCUTOFF.0.0.0.0.SUMMONED],DEFAULT)
AttackedBy([PC],DEFAULT)
AttackedBy([FAMILIAR],DEFAULT)
AttackedBy([ALLY],DEFAULT)
AttackedBy([CONTROLLED],DEFAULT)
AttackedBy([CHARMED],DEFAULT)
SpellCastOnMe([GOODCUTOFF.0.0.0.0.SUMMONED],0)
SpellCastOnMe([PC],0)
SpellCastOnMe([FAMILIAR],0)
SpellCastOnMe([ALLY],0)
SpellCastOnMe([CONTROLLED],0)
SpellCastOnMe([CHARMED],0)
}
Allegiance(Myself,ENEMY)
Global("JB_Active", "LOCALS", 0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("JB_Active", "LOCALS", 1)
Continue()
END
and then if noone is in sight the script will fall first to this trigger:
code:
IF
!See([GOODCUTOFF])
GlobalTimerNotExpired("JB_SeenPartyRecently", "LOCALS")
!Range(Player1, 18)
!Range(Player2, 18)
!Range(Player3, 18)
!Range(Player4, 18)
!Range(Player5, 18)
!Range(Player6, 18)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player1)
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player2)
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player3)
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player4)
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player5)
RESPONSE #100
MoveToObject(Player6)
END
Which will home in on the party provided the creature running the script has seen any party member recently (I'm assuming they watched which way they went).
Otherwise, it just gets:
code:
IF
!See([GOODCUTOFF])
THEN
RESPONSE #100
RandomWalk()
END
Which is the randomwalking you want .
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Sparrowhawk
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Canada CST
Apr 1999
time: 23:35
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Wow! I read through the last entire thread and this one too (just in short time periods though) and it took me about a week  . Most of the talk is over my head, as I have yet to play the game  .
However, I now have Baldur's Gate II "The Collection" which includes "Shadows of Amn" and "Throne of Bhaal". I am not ready to install it yet though, as from all I read I would like to play Baldur's Gate I first (and can't find it in any of the second hand stores I have checked).
My question (never mind character classes and races and everything else that I will worry about later) is what do I need to be able to play? (I bought BGII second hand and it came with 6 disks but no documentation except for the box). I have read about tutu and various patches, and it seems that the order that I install them is significant, and I also read about Icewind Dale which I am a fan of the novels, but what do I still need, (and which do I have to buy and what to download).
So what I am looking for is:
- any thoughts on how I would go about getting Baldur's Gate I (and for any mods reading this, I want to pay for it)
- what do I need for documentation (I was hoping for at least a manual with the game, but assume I can download the same? Unlike Duke of York, I am even willing to print it )
- what do I need for patches or updates? (Tutu is the only one I know for sure, but no idea where to begin to look for this)
- once I have all I need, what order do I install it?
* Sparrowhawk hoping for some Baldur's Gate help!!  which will be greatly appreciated
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Jamski
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lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
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Basically for BG1, just the patch is required. If you like you can use the Ease of Use mod on top of that. I wouldn't add anything else. As for finding the programm, try ebay, amazon, secondhand shops, flea markets... Interplay (I think) recently losts the rights to continue to sell it.
Next we have Icewind Dale. This is a stand-alone game in the same world, same engine, same rules. It has no link with BG apart from the gameplay mechanics.
Ok, then BG2+ToB. Patch and then use the Baldurdash fixpack. This isn't really optional. Then use any non-WeiDU (an installer program) mods, then any WeiDU mods (All WeiDU mods are compatable)
I hope that helps.
Sparrowhawk, if you're really bored there was another thread before the last one too...
-Jam
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07-05-2004 18:23
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