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panag is offline panag
Emperor
MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:36
Exclamation  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:20 Visit panag's homepage!
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Iran promises retaliation if Israel attacks Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Iran promises retaliation if Israel attacks
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
TEHRAN, Iran

Iran's top nuclear negotiator warned Israel on Tuesday that his
country would certainly retaliate if the Jewish state were to attack
Iranian nuclear facilities.

Israel and the United States suspect Iran is secretly building
nuclear weapons under cover of a nuclear program to produce
electricity. In the past, Israel has said it will not allow Iran to
build a nuclear bomb. In 1981, Israeli fighter-bombers destroyed a
nuclear reactor that was under construction outside Baghdad because
it feared Iraq would acquire a nuclear weapon.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said last month Iran was a
threat to Israel, "maybe the main existential threat."

In an interview with state television, Iran's chief negotiator on
nuclear affairs, Hasan Rowhani, warned that an Israeli attack would
have severe consequences.

"Israel knows our hands are well equipped," Rowhani said. "If such
an incident happens, it will meet a resolute response from our
side."

Rowhani did not explain what he meant by saying Iran was "well
equipped," but Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani said in December that
Iran would strike back with long-range missiles if Israel were to
attack its nuclear facilities.

Shamkhani said Iran's Shahab-3 missile, which has a range of about
1,300 kilometers (810 miles), would be one of the weapons used.
Israel is about 965 kilometers (600 miles) west of Iran.

Suspicion of Israel and its agents is pervasive in Iran. On
Saturday, Iran's armed forces closed the new Imam Khomeini
International Airport on its first day of scheduled flights. Citing
security concerns, the armed forces spoke of possible links between
Israel and a Turkish company that has a contract to operate the
airport. The Turkish company rejected the allegation.

Turkey does have military links with Israel.

Iran is building its first nuclear reactor, which is expected to
come on stream next year. It has been criticized by the
International Atomic Energy Agency for failing to disclose certain
aspects of its nuclear program. Iran has promised to cooperate fully
with IAEA inspectors and insists its program is only for peaceful
purposes.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:25
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So?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:35 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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I wonder if a deal could be made about Syria and Iran.
Smoke one, the next one gets smoked for free.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:41
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What is Iran going to do? If it retaliates, surely the US will step in. I guess Bush would then have an excuse to invade Iran. Oh well... it should make for interesting news.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:47
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To get to Iran, Israel has to overfly either:

1. Turkey
2. Iraq
3. Saudi Arabia

So in essence, they could not do it without the US knowing fully what is about to happen=and either give it tactic approval (overflights of Iraq) or stand by and do nothing.

Hence, the US would be the one to get the blame....

And we still ship them 3 billion a year

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 20:57 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
What is Iran going to do? If it retaliates, surely the US will step in.


Does the US have sufficient reserves to invade a country as populous as Iran and still keep up it's current commitments?

Does the US welcome the closure of the Persian Gulf to oil exports (Iran could do this for a limited time, albeit at great expense)?

You WANT to pay $10 a gallon? 'Cos that would be at least one result.

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I guess Bush would then have an excuse to invade Iran. Oh well... it should make for interesting news.


You have a weird idea of interesting.

As to Panag's original post - if Israel wants to cause more unstability and unrest, than that is Israel's decision. Personally I see nukes as stabilising, rather than destabilising, but clearly Israel's govt does not feel this way. I find it hypocrisy that Israel possesses nuclear weapons yet thinks it has a right to say who else should or should not have them.

And if Israel doesn't have nukes - why did Vanunu go to prison for so long?


However, we will ALL have to live with the consequences.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:01 Visit Evil Knevil's homepage!
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I certainly wouldn't trust Iran with nuclear weapons, but having Israel go and bomb it would just create a shitstorm of enormous proportions.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
Emperor
Hawthrone
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:02 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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yeah yeah everyone is a threat to everyone and you all are a threat to me.

That doesnt mean that we couldnt work it out otherwise!

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
Warlord
Tryin' hard to chill in the city of Dis
Jul 2000
time: 22:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:05
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The US would never approve of a preemptive strike against Iranian nuclear facilities by Israel. There are simply too many economic implications for the US.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:36
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...Also, just remembered. What would Lebanon do if Israel bombed Iran?

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:06
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Shocking news! If one country unilaterally attacks another, the country being attacked may retaliate!

Are there people that are expecting Iran to issue a statement saying "sure, come and bomb us. We don't care and certainly won't do anything about it"?

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:15 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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OMG -- a country is declaring that it would defend itself if it were attacked!

THIS is NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
Does the US have sufficient reserves to invade a country as populous as Iran and still keep up it's current commitments?
Well, the US could at least conduct a massive air campaign, destroying anything remotely resembling a military.
quote:

Does the US welcome the closure of the Persian Gulf to oil exports (Iran could do this for a limited time, albeit at great expense)?
oh please... Iran couldn't do jackshit... where's their Navy? US forces are already in control of that region.
quote:

You WANT to pay $10 a gallon? 'Cos that would be at least one result.
good... that would spark demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles. And all the SUV owners would be suffering... sounds good to me.

quote:

You have a weird idea of interesting.
I know

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
OMG -- a country is declaring that it would defend itself if it were attacked!

THIS is NEWS!!!!!!!!!





Btw, I would be for such a strike, if it was possible. However, it's not.

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 21:59 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Well, the US could at least conduct a massive air campaign, destroying anything remotely resembling a military.


Uh huh. Worked well other times, didn't it? Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia...

Air power without ground troops just pi55es off your opponent.

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
oh please... Iran couldn't do jackshit... where's their Navy? US forces are already in control of that region.


What exactly is the mine clearance capability of US naval vessels?

Last time I looked, zero... US Navy uses helos for that role - which aren't terribly effective in open waters.

Of course, Iran couldn't keep them closed. But it could close them for a short period.

quote:
Originally posted by Sava
good... that would spark demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles. And all the SUV owners would be suffering... sounds good to me.


And dramatically increase costs for industry, causing more unemployment and crime.

Next time you're mugged, reconsider your answer.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:00
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quote:
Next time you're mugged, reconsider your answer.

that's okay, I don't leave the house much.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:35
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quote:
Well, the US could at least conduct a massive air campaign, destroying anything remotely resembling a military.


Cause we did that in Iraq! Oh, wait.....

Come one, this one is not even imaginative.

quote:
oh please... Iran couldn't do jackshit... where's their Navy? US forces are already in control of that region.


Well, they do have four modern diesel attack subs. More importantly, they don;t need much of a navy to make the Straits of Hormuz a mess

quote:
good... that would spark demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles. And all the SUV owners would be suffering... sounds good to me


RIIIIGHT....keep telling yourself that.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Cause we did that in Iraq! Oh, wait.....
YES SADDAMS MIGHTY TANKS AND AIRPLANES HAVE DEFEATED THE AMERICANS!

quote:

Well, they do have four modern diesel attack subs. More importantly, they don;t need much of a navy to make the Straits of Hormuz a mess
four WHOLE subs? that would take the Navy... what... 15 minutes to destroy?

quote:

RIIIIGHT....keep telling yourself that.
it happened after '73

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:42 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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Sava, you don't remember the tanker war of the mid 80s.

Over 100 tankers were attacked in 1 year alone.

Come to think of it, that period was the last big peak for oil prices... so add that situation into the current one and you've got an even bigger mess.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
Sava, you don't remember the tanker war of the mid 80s.

Over 100 tankers were attacked in 1 year alone.

Come to think of it, that period was the last big peak for oil prices... so add that situation into the current one and you've got an even bigger mess.
I don't doubt it would be a mess... but I can guarantee that Iran's "Navy" would be toast if it messed with America.

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:49 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I don't doubt it would be a mess... but I can guarantee that Iran's "Navy" would be toast if it messed with America.


But the object of this thread isn't Iran messing with America. It's Israel messing with Iran, and the likely consequences.

You want more martyrs? Fine. Just be prepared for the gas price to go up and the coffins to be flown home.

And, when the US has failed to change the Iranian regime, lost it's foothold in Iraq, turned the whole Middle East into one big anti-western block buying every gun, bomb and missile that China and NK can make...

...don't say you were not warned about it.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Cruddy
But the object of this thread isn't Iran messing with America. It's Israel messing with Iran, and the likely consequences.

You want more martyrs? Fine. Just be prepared for the gas price to go up and the coffins to be flown home.

And, when the US has failed to change the Iranian regime, lost it's foothold in Iraq, turned the whole Middle East into one big anti-western block buying every gun, bomb and missile that China and NK can make...

...don't say you were not warned about it.
I think I should point out that I don't WANT the US to attack Iran... I'm just being realistic about what would happen if Iran attacked Israel. The US would get involved I think. It would play right into Bush's hands because I know he and his neo-con buddies want to invade every MidEast nation and try to make them democracies.

For the record, I think the US shouldn't help out Israel if it starts a war with Iran.

But... make no mistake, Iran would be on the losing end of any conflict with either Israel or the US.

Somehow I think rockets from Tehran landing in Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem would inflame the Western World. I envision a post-SaddaminvasionofKuwait situation where a US-led Coalition (a real one, not the fake one Bush has now) strikes back at Iran.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
YES SADDAMS MIGHTY TANKS AND AIRPLANES HAVE DEFEATED THE AMERICANS!


NO, they didn't. The point is that it was America's TANKS and GROUNDTROOPS, NOT the airforces that beat Saddam twice. Hence your point, that an airwar alone is enough, is WRONG. In fact, we can go with the whole SERBIA example for you...something you barely ever even mention...

quote:
four WHOLE subs? that would take the Navy... what... 15 minutes to destroy?


A bit more, actually, it will depend on when we find them.

quote:

it happened after '73


sadly the situation on the ground is no longer the same.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 23:03 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Iran has silkworm missiles, which the U.S. Navy was worried about some twenty years ago. Dunno if they still are.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 23:08
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quote:
Shocking news! If one country unilaterally attacks another, the country being attacked may retaliate!


Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 23:39
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quote:
NO, they didn't. The point is that it was America's TANKS and GROUNDTROOPS, NOT the airforces that beat Saddam twice. Hence your point, that an airwar alone is enough, is WRONG. In fact, we can go with the whole SERBIA example for you...something you barely ever even mention...
I'm not talking about gaining control of Iran on the ground or occupying it... an air war would be more than enough to punish Iran. All of their conventional equipment (tanks, planes) could be targeted, any command and control facilities, anti-air/radar sites, power plants, industrial facilities... all of it could be turned into rubble which would undoubtly leave Iran screwed.

I'm not here arguing that this SHOULD be the course of action... I'm merely stating what I believe what would happen if Iran decided to go to the next level. For a normally sharp guy Gepap, you seem to be lost in the dark on this one.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:36
  Old Post 11-05-2004 23:42
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Now I remember who I have on ignore.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
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  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:04 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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Iran would retaliate if Israel attacked?
How anti-semite....Doesn't Iran know what Israelis suffered during the holocaust?

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:36
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:07
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I hope Iran kills Putin.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 12-05-2004 00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I'm not talking about gaining control of Iran on the ground or occupying it... an air war would be more than enough to punish Iran. All of their conventional equipment (tanks, planes) could be targeted, any command and control facilities, anti-air/radar sites, power plants, industrial facilities... all of it could be turned into rubble which would undoubtly leave Iran screwed.

I'm not here arguing that this SHOULD be the course of action... I'm merely stating what I believe what would happen if Iran decided to go to the next level. For a normally sharp guy Gepap, you seem to be lost in the dark on this one.




Hello! Do you rember Serbia? We bombed Serbia for 70 days plus trying to get them to give in- in those 70 days we failed. Most of their equipment was not destroyed, nor command and control. Whic is what you claim we can do.

The effectiveness of the campaign you believe us capable of can only come based on the amount of intelligence we have- decoy tanks, or placing vehicles in strcutures and such deceptions work. All the Iranians have to do is move vehicles to areas in which stuff can be hidden easily (much like the serbs stuck tanks in rail tunnels), and if we can;t see it, we can;t hit it. C3 is even easier to move, just move it into civilian buildings, or unknown underground bunkers, so forth.

As for attacks on civilian infrastructure-that is another level issue. But of course, the political fallout from doing something so monumentally stupid as to attack the civlian and economic infrastructure of another sovereing state by us is such that it would rule out such an action from the get go.

 
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