12-05-2004 22:53									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Obviously, David does not live in the real world, where there are countless unemployed people who would like to work, but circumstances deprive them of real opportunity to do so.

	12-05-2004 22:53									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: such statements clash violently with Kerry’s subsequent declaration to The Wall Street Journal: “I’m not a protectionist. I never have been. I’m not about to be.”

But they don't.... there is NO clash!

Being a free trader doesn't mean that you don't want manufacturing jobs in Detroit! It simply means you want those manufacturing jobs in the US to be more efficient to compete in the global market place. Thereby the consumers benefit and manufacturing workers benefit. Wanting jobs to stay in America doesn't mean you can't be a free trader .

	12-05-2004 22:54									#33
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo She's probably going to vote for Bush because she would lose more of her money with her husband in power.

or perhaps she's not a selfish piece of **** and realizes that contributing to society is good

	12-05-2004 22:57									#34
	I can't believe I'm saying this... Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by GePap What moronic campaign handlers Like he has a chance to win Kentucky! They could jhave made a photoop of him signing up.... Fire the campaign manager.

... but you're exactly right. This was a pretty big blunder on the part of his campaign. He had better be glad this didn't happen during the primary season.

Otoh, I don't know how Bush will be able to spin this since it was his party that accounted for all but one of the "no" votes.

	12-05-2004 22:57									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sava it was probably a Senate vote that was part of a garbage bill...

If that's how you view unemployment benefits, you're more conservative than me.

	12-05-2004 23:02									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Wow, a Democrat did something with regards to the economy that I support! Unemployment benefits are stupid - why should people who don't work get paid?

Oh David usually I stay away from arguments with you but this one.....well here goes.

I was on unemployment for a time. I worked for over ten years paid into the system, my employers paid into the system. So in my book I earned the right to collect that little, and I do mean little check. It's not a question of people not wanting to work. The way unemployment is set up....unless you have worked so many quarters guess what you get nothing.....nada....dooo da.....zip!!

You have to work and put into the system before you even have the right to claim anything and if you haven't worked for very long then your benifits don't last very long. I was lucky I had worked for ten years straight when I needed to file for it so I was able to receive it. And it helped keep my head and my kids heads above water until I could get another job paying me what I needed.

It's not like it's welfare and yes, we all know your stance on that.

	12-05-2004 23:03									#37
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sava it was probably a Senate vote that was part of a garbage bill... if you looked hard enough, you could find Senator * voted to eat babies! diplomat and his ilk can't find any legitimate issues to talk about, so they praddle on about dubious Senate votes.

No, it was an amendment to a larger bill. The vote in question only applied to the amendment.

	12-05-2004 23:05									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sava it was probably a Senate vote that was part of a garbage bill...

If that's how you view unemployment benefits, you're more conservative than me.

	12-05-2004 23:07									#39
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

it says Kerry DIDN'T VOTE... I thought you guys were saying he voted NO

In case you haven't noticed... he's running for president. Most of the democratic primary candidates missed their respective vote sessions.

OMG JOHN KERRY EATS BABIWES!

	12-05-2004 23:08									#40
	Got spare money?

You only need to say something once, DD.

	12-05-2004 23:09									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc If that's how you view unemployment benefits, you're more conservative than me.

	12-05-2004 23:11									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sava it says Kerry DIDN'T VOTE... I thought you guys were saying he voted NO In case you haven't noticed... he's running for president. Most of the democratic primary candidates missed their respective vote sessions. OMG JOHN KERRY EATS BABIWES!

Sava, chill. The point is that Kerry can't miss votes like this if he wants to remain a viable candidate for the Democratic party and its supporters. Saying "I was campaigning" is not, repeat, not going to win him any sympathy from those people affected by this bill.

	12-05-2004 23:14									#43
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Sava, chill. The point is that Kerry can't miss votes like this if he wants to remain a viable candidate for the Democratic party and its supporters. Saying "I was campaigning" is not, repeat, not going to win him any sympathy from those people affected by this bill.

The bill passed 59-40... his vote was irrelevant. Perhaps if his vote was the sole deciding vote, then I could see where this would be a legitimate issue. His vote wasn't... so it's not.

	12-05-2004 23:15									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

His vote would have been the deciding vote, Sava. That's the point... it needed 60 to pass. If Kerry had voted, then they would've had 60. Here, let's do the math:

59
+1
----
60

See?

	12-05-2004 23:15									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The action of other senators are irrelevant=-here he goes, having the posibility of making such a big deal about how he is the vote to get this passed, and then hit the republicans for voting against. nOw he can;t do that, and he lookd the fool.

He turns a political plus into a political negative..worst thing a politican can squander.

	12-05-2004 23:15									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Sava The bill passed 59-40... his vote was irrelevant. Perhaps if his vote was the sole deciding vote, then I could see where this would be a legitimate issue.

A push by Senate Democrats to extend jobless benefits lost by a single vote yesterday - as their nominee-to-be, John Kerry (search), missed the vote while campaigning

	12-05-2004 23:16									#47
	Support Apolyton

Did you look at the senate.gov cite that I provided earlier?

	12-05-2004 23:16									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

oh well **** me then

	12-05-2004 23:17									#49
	Tired of ads?

Naw, you don't want that. Nor I, for that matter.

	12-05-2004 23:18									#50
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by GePap He turns a political plus into a political negative..worst thing a politican can squander.

He's very good at that.. every chance I seen Kerry has had to capitalize against Bush, he hasn't or has screwed it up terribly.

Some candidate you democrats have.

	12-05-2004 23:19									#51
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sava oh well **** me then

With pleasure...

	12-05-2004 23:21									#52
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My main problem with unemployment is not the existence of the program - well, it is, but that's a separate issue. My main issue is that the state transfers the cost, in many cases, to the former employer.

Now, if the state wants to hand money out, fine - I disagree, obviously, but I'm being taxed either way. But that's the state's problem, not the business's problem. If a business fires someone for, for example, refusing to work on Sunday because of religious beliefs, the State cannot refuse to pay out unemployment (Supreme Court decision, can't recall case citation). If the State pays unemployment, then most likely the employer will pay as well.

But wait a minute. If it didn't fit the employer's business needs to employ a person who couldn't work on Sunday, why should they have to pay to fire that person? Doesn't quite seem fair that business needs can be subordinated to personal religious beliefs, now does it?

In any case, I have a final exam to take so I've gotta run, but I'd be (marginally) satisfied if employers were not forced to pay out unemployment compensation. If the state wants to, that's the states business, but don't raise taxes or get money from the employer in order to do so.

	12-05-2004 23:21									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by GePap The action of other senators are irrelevant=-here he goes, having the posibility of making such a big deal about how he is the vote to get this passed, and then hit the republicans for voting against. nOw he can;t do that, and he lookd the fool. He turns a political plus into a political negative..worst thing a politican can squander.

Actually, I think its worse than that. As another poster earlier said, he allowed the Republicans to vote in such a way as to make it appear that Kerry was the deciding vote. I doubt that the bill would've passed if he had been there (some Repub from a safe seat would've changed their "Yea" to "Nay"), but his absence gave them the opportunity to play him for a fool. And when you're allowing Dubya to play you for a fool, well... that's not good.

	12-05-2004 23:23									#54
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: My main problem with unemployment is not the existence of the program - well, it is, but that's a separate issue. My main issue is that the state transfers the cost, in many cases, to the former employer.

So what's your alternative David? The unemployed getting nothing? People being evicted from their homes, not being able to feed their children?

Do you want another Great Depression? What is your solution?

	12-05-2004 23:24									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Good point, John. You never know if some Republicans actually voted 'Yes' so that Kerry looks like the big doofus, when otherwise they may have voted no.

quote: And when you're allowing Dubya to play you for a fool, well... that's not good.

Karl Rove, John... and he's a political genius on these things.

	12-05-2004 23:26									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I would not at all be surprised if that was the case. A lot of these vote outcomes are known prior to the actual vote and Kerry probably walked away certain that there was a (for example) dead-solid 44 votes against the bill. When the Repubs made sure he was in KY (and after all the Dems had voted), well...

	12-05-2004 23:29									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The icing on the cake is that he was wasting his time campaigning in Kentucky....KENTUCKY!

Come on, he's rich-fly to washington of the private jet, vote, take photo-op, attack republicans for not voting for this, then go back to campaign.

	12-05-2004 23:29									#58
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Karl Rove, John... and he's a political genius on these things.

Yeah, but Kerry is running against Bush and that's who he'll be compared to. I can hear it now...

"Bush can push through unpopular tax cuts for his rich buddies while Kerry can't even be bothered to cast the deciding vote on a bill extending unemployment benefits."

... stuff like that.

	12-05-2004 23:31									#59
	Suffering from ads?

Yes, but like you said, then it becomes known that it was Bush's Republicans which ultimately prevented extending unemployment.

	12-05-2004 23:31									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

John McCain voted "Yay"