13-05-2004 00:31									#91
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat You really think that the republicans engineered the vote to be one vote shy of 60 deliberately? All you would need is to have one republican change his mind and vote for it, and this "scheme" would fail.

Certainly. Unlike us $%^& Democrats, the Repuplicans do a much better job of instilling party discipline. You don't defy the leadership very often and get away with it. They have a lot of influence on how much pork goes your way, how much the state and national committees will kick your way in reelection, etc. With rare exceptions, you play ball with the party leadership, or they stick the bat up your ass.

One Republican could have changed his mind anyway and made it 60-39, but that didn't happen, did it? I find the magic one vote margin to be just a little too cozy.

quote: Regardless, Kerry would have been better off politically to vote for it, so as to at least be able to tout that he voted even if the bill did not pass, than to lament that unemployed are not getting their benefits when he did not even bother to vote at all.

I agree with you there, but Kerry is in a real tough position. How often has a sitting minority party senator successfully ran against an incumbent President? Kerry is in the position of either getting yanked off the campaign every time the Republicans want to pull his string, or blowing off important votes. Either way, he hurts, but this was one that was big enough that he should have made a show of it.

Dumb Yankee liberals, but then I repeat myself twice over, again.

	13-05-2004 00:33									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar She paid 15%. My family earns less than a tenth of what she does, and we paid ~40%.

And whom's does she have to thank? Why, BUsh of course!

Myabe some of hear earning are incorporated? That way she gets to pay for various things beofre taxes, cutting down her tax bill significantly.

	13-05-2004 00:33									#93
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I think Jaguar may be talking about total taxes... this, AFAIK, is about Teresa Heinz Kerry's federal income taxes. This doesn't include payroll, state, local, or other taxes taken off of paychecks.

	13-05-2004 00:34									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar She paid 15%. My family earns less than a tenth of what she does, and we paid ~40%.

And who is responsible for this tax scale and the current tax laws? Seems like one party has run Congress for ten years now, and had the White House for over three.

	13-05-2004 00:36									#95
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And whom's does she have to thank? Why, BUsh of course! Myabe some of hear earning are incorporated? That way she gets to pay for various things beofre taxes, cutting down her tax bill significantly.

GePap, are you drunk or something?

	13-05-2004 00:39									#96
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat And who is responsible for this tax scale and the current tax laws? Seems like one party has run Congress for ten years now, and had the White House for over three.

Don't try to make me responsible for the actions of the Republican party.

A problem that both parties run into is that they point out people like Warren Buffet, and say that he can easily afford more taxes. Then they use that image to get away with taxing everybody who earns more than 80k.

If the Democrats were in charge the past ten years, we would be paying 70% and she would be paying 50. Woop-de-****ing-doo.

	13-05-2004 00:49									#97
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Naaah, those rates only kick in when somebody a few generations down the road has to finally start dealing with the deficits we're running now.

	13-05-2004 00:58									#98
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I'm glad I made my arguments before I read that article. Perhaps I'm in the wrong business. Oh, yeah: link.

Yeah but I beat you to it.

	13-05-2004 01:00									#99
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Naaah, those rates only kick in when somebody a few generations down the road has to finally start dealing with the deficits we're running now.

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If you're making a little under 500,000 a year (10%), don't ***** about your taxes. You're like that fat guy *****ing that his seven course meal was a course short.

Both of you seem to think that I'm complaining about my taxes being too high. On the contrary, I'm complaining about Heinz's taxes being too low.

So chegitz has compared me to a fat guy, despite the fact that we are in agreement.

	13-05-2004 01:15									#100
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quote: You really think that the republicans engineered the vote to be one vote shy of 60 deliberately?

Of course! It's brilliant politics. I'd hope the Republicans engineered this if I backed Bush this year.

	13-05-2004 01:16									#101
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*Imran gives Jaguar a cookie*

	13-05-2004 01:22									#102
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Thank you

	13-05-2004 01:28									#103
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You need better accountants. If you're making a little under 500,000 a year (10%), don't ***** about your taxes. You're like that fat guy *****ing that his seven course meal was a course short.

ouch -- retract those claws, Che and stop using Jaguar as a scratching post

	13-05-2004 01:29									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Thank you

Cookies make you fat, Jag.

Next course?

	13-05-2004 01:33									#105
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Not if they are LOW CARB cookies!

	13-05-2004 01:42									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Cookies make you fat, Jag. Next course?

	13-05-2004 01:43									#107
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun ouch -- retract those claws, Che and stop using Japher as a scratching post

Thanks for coming to my aid, MrGay, even if you didn't get my name right.

	13-05-2004 01:45									#108
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I hate slips like that.

	13-05-2004 01:55									#109
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Something I am not getting here

kerry is getting flack for missing a vote for something that, I presume, most republicans voted against anyway

If this bill was good and necessary, shouldn't we give more criticism to those that voted against it than anyone that missed the vote.

If the bill is something you oppose, then his failure to show only defeated something he should vote against anyway so no adverse consequences

A presidential candidate is busy campaigning, I thought everyone accepted that

	13-05-2004 02:17									#110
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You're attempting to be rational, Flubber. Most of the electorate either can't, or can't be bothered, so it's all just a question of who can spin things which way for the 30-second sound bites that will determine how the campaigning runs.

	13-05-2004 02:19									#111
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That took too long to read. Can somebody condense MtG's last post for me?

	13-05-2004 02:20									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Both of you seem to think that I'm complaining about my taxes being too high. On the contrary, I'm complaining about Heinz's taxes being too low.

Oh, okay then.

I wish I made enough money to be paying 40% taxes.

	13-05-2004 02:50									#115
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT That took too long to read. Can somebody condense MtG's last post for me?

Good one

	13-05-2004 03:38									#116
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Does anyone really think party line votes happen at random, because everyone within a particular party thinks the same, no matter? And that the leadership of the two parties don't do anything?

Who cares? I'm amazed at the genius of it and I'm also curious if they intend on doing it again.

	13-05-2004 03:45									#117
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Depends on how this torture thing plays out. The Senate Republicans are not too happy with the Prez right now.

	13-05-2004 04:36									#118
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Something that can be ameliorated if he'd offer up Rumsfeld.

	13-05-2004 04:45									#119
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If he would, but he won't.

The one good thing I can say about Bush as a human being is that he's loyal to a fault. This is a bad thing when President, but a good thing when a friend.

	13-05-2004 04:51									#120
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Too bad Rummy doesn't feel the same. This weeks The Economist has a front page story imploring Rumsfeld to step down. Inside they observe that if Rummy is truly loyal to Bush he'd step down of his own accord as to draw the political heat from the Pres in this election year.