15-05-2004 05:41									#1
	Next ACDG: Choppers and the Cloudbase Academy Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A follow-up poll from here.

The suggestion to reduce chopper movement points by two has been accepted by three quarters of the voters. Now that has been accepted, I'm wondering if there would also be a majority for a follow-up proposal to reduce chopper movement by one more MP, by three in total in other words.

This would result, pre-fusion power, in non-SAM choppers with 7 movement points (still very powerful in close combat and to attack bases on medium distance) and SAM choppers with 5 movement points (sufficient to move two squares out of a base, perform an attack, and move back into the base).

As a reminder, after the latest poll the current situation is 8 MPs for non-SAM fission choppers, and 6 for SAM fission choppers.

Please vote for either "Stick to reducing by two", "Reduce by three" or "Xenochoppana" on this proposal.

o0o

A second proposal is whether we should change the prerequisite tech for being able to build the Cloudbase Academy to some higher level tech. Currently it's Mind/Machine Interface. Please vote for "Yes", "No" or "Xenocloudana".

o0o

The third question is linked to the second: "If the proposal to change the prerequisite of the Cloudbase Academy is accepted, what tech would you prefer as new prerequisite?" Two suggested options are Advanced Spaceflight and N-Space Compression, so these are included in the poll, together with a Write-in (in case you'd have another suggestion) and Xenobanana option. I made this a seperate question, so people who would prefer not to change the prerequisite can still decide what tech the CBA moves to in case if they'd be in the minority in the second question.

o0o

This is a multichoice poll. Please vote only once for each question. Three votes in total in other words. The time limit is seven days.

o0o

My personal vote for the MMI prerequisite: I voted for N-Space Compression, as Advanced Spaceflight already has many goodies (Shard, Orbital Power Transmitter, Refinery). Also to research N-Space Compression you need MMI, the current prerequisite for the CBA., while Adv Spaceflight is a rather different research path.

	15-05-2004 06:10									#2
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I have actually had the priveledge of watching helicopter gunships practicing engagements when I was involved in the evaluation of the Sgt York Air Defense System. The helicopters were, supremely speaking, a counterengagement tool as well as taking advantage of the enemies mistakes. As an intiative grabbing tool they suffered from their lack of armour as well as their lack of being able to occupy possessed lands. I would therefore say that helicopters should be limited to 6 tiles/ turn (4 tiles for defender choppers).


D

	15-05-2004 12:09									#3
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As prerequisite I would like to suggest Orbital Spaceflight, in memory of the negative poll for including new techs.

It is on the same level as MMI, and forces the player to choose for a radically different path. If the CBA is brought to N-Space, already half the prerequisites for this tech are researched.

I'll vote later, need to think more about 2 or 3 reducements for the choppers.

	15-05-2004 12:24									#4
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reduce by 2, change to advanced spaceflight, and all three bananas.

	15-05-2004 15:47									#5
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Move to AdvSpaceflight (different tech path), reduce by three and one xenobanana.

	15-05-2004 16:43									#6
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Darsen: Good point, thats why in my MOD the Living Refinery goes to Organic Super Lub (sounds apropriate dosent it) Then Advanced Space Flight only has 1 Project under it rather then 2.

	15-05-2004 18:28									#7
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Voted

Pretty much the same as Obstructor.

Us Morgans got to stick together

	16-05-2004 00:57									#8
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No rules changes I want to play SMAC/X

-Jam

	16-05-2004 00:59									#9
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I voted that too Jamski, but it seems the majority would rather change. Therefore I voted for the least change possible...

	16-05-2004 03:26									#10
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Voted to reduce by 3 movement points

(like Alinestra Covelia has, I've tried long and hard to get the choppers attack vs units in base to have a 50% penalty - or base defenders against choppers to have a 50% bonus, but just haven't been able to find the right combinations of triggers in alphax.txt to do this. Allie has ended up disabling choppers completely in her games- Obviously that wouldn't fly here (pun intended ) - so next best is reduce movement points by 3

Voted for N-space compression

G.

	16-05-2004 11:49									#11
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Further reduction to -3MP, change the pre-req to N-Space Compression. That comes later, and choppers are just too powerful. We've seen that in the current game, where almost all of the University was choppered away in a single turn.

	16-05-2004 17:59									#12
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That's how the game works. Choppers ARE the überweapon.

Ah well... I suppose it's a democracy game, and we have to accept the will of the majority.

I thought we agreed to play SMAC/X though.

-Jam

	16-05-2004 18:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski That's how the game works. Choppers ARE the überweapon. Ah well... I suppose it's a democracy game, and we have to accept the will of the majority. I thought we agreed to play SMAC/X though. -Jam

Look at it this way:

The game should last longer this way, weren't you the guy who was on the campaign to save the ACDC because it was going to end too soon?

	16-05-2004 18:50									#14
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I voted for stick to two, no change for CBA just because I do not know what impact that will bring us. And I do not see an option for people who voted for no change for CBA so I voted banana.

	16-05-2004 19:15									#15
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu And I do not see an option for people who voted for no change for CBA so I voted banana.

2) Change CBA prerequisite? No!

	16-05-2004 19:52									#16
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I think HongHu was refering to the third question in that statement. It could be taken to mean that the third question can only be answered by people who've answered yes to moving the CBA.

I voted for Advanced Spaceflight to move the CBA to, but I'd like to change my vote to N-Space Compression. Adv.Space seems already overpowered in reterospect, so N-space seems a better choice.

	16-05-2004 20:18									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski No rules changes I want to play SMAC/X

I agree completely. I think we get far to carried away with modding, and should leave the game as it is.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Look at it this way: The game should last longer this way, weren't you the guy who was on the campaign to save the ACDC because it was going to end too soon?

Well, this DG has taken over a year already. ACDGI took 9 months or so, and seemed, IMHO, to be a much better length. People even got bored towards the end of the first one, and it seems the personel turnover has been high this time. Very few original people are still active, because they got bored. I think having a longer game is worse, IMHO. New people will be needed to keep it going. if we get them, great. If not, we have a bit of a problem.

	16-05-2004 20:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski That's how the game works. Choppers ARE the überweapon. Ah well... I suppose it's a democracy game, and we have to accept the will of the majority. I thought we agreed to play SMAC/X though. -Jam

And Progenitors are the überfactions, but rarely I hear people wanting to play them or against them. Those are also part of SMACX.

	16-05-2004 20:38									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Well, this DG has taken over a year already. ACDGI took 9 months or so, and seemed, IMHO, to be a much better length. People even got bored towards the end of the first one, and it seems the personel turnover has been high this time. Very few original people are still active, because they got bored. I think having a longer game is worse, IMHO. New people will be needed to keep it going. if we get them, great. If not, we have a bit of a problem.

Well, we could hold a poll for a flying start. Things get moving faster then.

	16-05-2004 20:41									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Well, this DG has taken over a year already. ACDGI took 9 months or so, and seemed, IMHO, to be a much better length. People even got bored towards the end of the first one, and it seems the personel turnover has been high this time. Very few original people are still active, because they got bored. I think having a longer game is worse, IMHO. New people will be needed to keep it going. if we get them, great. If not, we have a bit of a problem.

Good point, I intend to stick around if hat is an consolation............

	16-05-2004 22:23									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk I think HongHu was refering to the third question in that statement. It could be taken to mean that the third question can only be answered by people who've answered yes to moving the CBA.

From my first post:

quote: I made this a seperate question, so people who would prefer not to change the prerequisite can still decide what tech the CBA moves to in case if they'd be in the minority in the second question.

In other words, this third question would only be valid of on the second question a majority voted for "yes".

	16-05-2004 23:09									#22
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I certainly intend to stay, and I am sure that there will be a slow, but steady influx of new players.

	17-05-2004 12:54									#23
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Well, like I said, we are a democracy game, so we have to live with not getting all the descisons going our way always.

It would be a shame if we played with changed rules though, as then I wouldn't be able to actually play the turns. I'm not going to install and uninstall a mod every time I want to play a PBEM turn.

-Jam

	17-05-2004 12:54									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I thought we agreed to play SMAC/X though. -Jam

We ARE, unless this all moves to the Civ3 DG forum.

Uberweapons are unbalancing. It becomes a rush to the one or two things that win/lose the game. That sucks. DGs are all about using your collective brains to come up with good (and new) strategies, not just getting stuck in the old.

	17-05-2004 13:22									#25
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You know, I think we should just give every unit a 1-1-1.
To balance them all out, of course

	17-05-2004 19:13									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski It would be a shame if we played with changed rules though, as then I wouldn't be able to actually play the turns. I'm not going to install and uninstall a mod every time I want to play a PBEM turn. -Jam

Ok this is a very very important factor. If what you guys are talking about means that people have to install and uninstall something every turn, I would have to oppose to it greatly. Most people are in a couple pbems, especially the ones that with good gaming skills. If that means they have to switch back and force I can foresee the limitation this would bring to actual players for each faction.

I would appreciate a clarification about whether this is true.

	17-05-2004 19:15									#27
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I assumed that changing the alpha.txt will apply these changes to all games.

-Jam

	17-05-2004 19:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Chaunk I think HongHu was refering to the third question in that statement. It could be taken to mean that the third question can only be answered by people who've answered yes to moving the CBA.

Sorry Maniac. It was my fussy head over 6 hour sleeping again. Chaunk was right that I was intended to say that "I did not see an option in the third question for people who voted no to moving the CBA so I voted banana for the third question."

	17-05-2004 19:53									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I assumed that changing the alpha.txt will apply these changes to all games. -Jam

If you change those values in your alphax.txt file, then, yes, they will apply to all games you play that you initiate

If you are playing in PBEM that was started by a CMN as a scenario, then "multiplay scenario", certain of the changes that the CMN had in his alphax.txt file become embedded in that PBEM. However only the #rules and #units are carried through - the other items don't. So, for example, if the CMN wanted to give base defenders 200% AAA bonus that would happen for all players in that PBEM, but you wouldn't see it in any other game you play

Unfortunately the facilities and tech mods that are around don't carry thru PBEMs - you would have to amend your text.

I've heard of some players with programming skills who have written applications that when you load a PBEM turn, will look for and substitute both an .ini file (to give the correct graphics for the game being loaded), and an alphax.txt file to incorporate any mods needed.

I, alas, lack such skills.

G.

	17-05-2004 20:10									#30
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Ok what does this mean? Do we or do we not need to change things back and force? I will have to fight violently if it is a yes.