16-10-2000 04:04									#1
	Why is the Karen Mills thread locked at the top of the OT? Got spare money?

This is so annoying. It may be a worthy cause, it may not be. Why not let it rise and fall on its merits?

Can I get a thread for one of my favorite charities put up there as well if I start an Apolyton group about it?


------------------
Trust Noone!

	16-10-2000 04:51									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually I'm wondering if the whole off topic page is messed up because the threads don't seem to be updating when I reload to page...

	16-10-2000 04:55									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

perhaps because there are no new posts??

	16-10-2000 05:40									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For some reason, it seems that it is no longer sticky. Why?

Murgatroyd

------------------
http://www.civgaming.net opens 15 October 2000!

	16-10-2000 06:22									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Murgatroyd on 10-15-2000 08:40 PM</font>
For some reason, it seems that it is no longer sticky. Why?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>I answered this in the thread itself

	16-10-2000 09:26									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

AH, your concern for the success of Karen's house is choking me up here. Helping folks can be so "annoying". Sorry if we've caused you any inconvience, but we're going to keep helping Karen.

You can keep your PROT, I'll look to this thread for the real Alexanders Horse.

	16-10-2000 10:21									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>AH, your concern for the success of Karen's house is choking me up here. Helping folks can be so "annoying". Sorry if we've caused you any inconvience, but we're going to keep helping Karen.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

*sigh*

See, before it wasn't 'casue I liked people spamming unused forums, it was 'cause what AH did. Now it seems like that sort of behavious isn't isolated - AH is really like that.

AH - you talked about EVC being crazy in the past and all that - perhaps someday you'll be like him and realise what you're being like here...



------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

	16-10-2000 11:29									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Lancer, charity works best when it isn't inflicted on people. I don't see how giving your cause a nuisance value helps it. And taking a few cheap shots at me doesn't help that cause either.


------------------
Trust No-one!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	16-10-2000 14:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 10-16-2000 02:29 AM</font>
Lancer, charity works best when it isn't inflicted on people.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Amen to that. I too have mixed feelings about the whole concept of using a site like Apolyton for drawn out charity appeals, however worthy they are. Charity is a personal matter for the donator, not a public one, at least to me it is. And the Karen Mills threads have been around long enough already for everyone to see.

There's even talk of creating a new Karen Mills thread for Christmas too. I would think that an announcement including information on where to send possible donations would do. I wouldn't say the threads annoy me, it just seems strange to turn a simple charity appeal into one of the longest going threads in the OT, that's all.

Legman out.

	16-10-2000 15:07									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

AH, it would seem that you are the only one to consider the Karen Mills thread being made sticky as being inflicted on you. To many others it brought the attention to the thread that brought in donations that should not only allow us to build the house, but put in water and add a bathroom.

So, Mark and Dan did a great service to Karen by getting involved in this effort in exactly the manner in which they did.

As regards yourself AH, I see you managed to survive this trying time of the sticky Karen Mills thread, and the difficult experience of being "inflicted" with this "annoying", "charity".

Kind of an interesting combination of quotes.

	16-10-2000 15:08									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Oh well, wrong again.

	16-10-2000 15:24									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Legman, would you feel the same if you were Karen Mills? If the Karen Mills threads weren't in front of the people, nobody would know about em. Yesterday Kull came into the thread to donate $100. He had been away and didn't know it existed.

What rule is there in the OT that all threads achieve nothing but a passtime?

We're building a house for a family that has known nothing but poverty Legman, doesn't that mean something to you?

Legman, nobody says that you and AH have to go into a Karen Mills thread, let alone contribute your money to this project. So why be so negative, it's only one thread among, what, thirty?

	16-10-2000 15:26									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well Lancer, I don't like sacred cows. The thread seemed to get support without being stuck to the top irritating people.

Btw, is your enterprise a registered charity?

------------------
Trust No-one!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	16-10-2000 15:50									#14
	Got spare money?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Btw, is your enterprise a registered charity?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

If people ar directly sending the money into their accounts, then Lancer doesn't need to be a charity because he's not actually handling the money. I think. (But I think he has handled some donations before though.)

------------------
No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards... Despite any stupid advertisments you may see to the contrary...

	16-10-2000 17:11									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I admire your efforts in helping this girl , perhaps she may become a good person out of this,rather than the options she had before. That said I must agree with Horse that it was wrong for it to be stuck on top for so long, if the cause is so good you should have let it stand on its merits, not forced it upon us for days on end.

Just my opinion, no one has to agree.

	16-10-2000 18:54									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

it's really despicable that some people are irritated because a thread about charity is at the top of the page.

those saying that thread should stay on the top "on it's own merits" shoult try to calculate how many posts and how often it would take to have the thread stay just on the first page(not to say on the top 20 or top 10) given the ammount of posting on the OT

i mean for some people geting to see a thread being first on a internet forum is worse than not having a place to live....

	16-10-2000 19:38									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One could say the selfrighteousness from some people on this issue is equally despicable.

	16-10-2000 20:57									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Why don't we just designate an area like the Apolyton thread for "general topic sticky threads"?
That way, the Karen thread can still exist and be visited, and the OT will remain dynamic, as is its nature.
Horse, as usual, is exploding a theme as Devil's Advocate, because he gets all tingly when the sacred is defiled. But he raises a valid point.
Lancer is being extremely kind hearted and generous here...no need to **** on his efforts.
I'm sure a good compromise can be reached...?


------------------
Bring it!

"How ridiculous and how strange, to be surprised by anything that happens in life." Marcus Aurelius (Meditations)
Chief Revealer of Personal Foibles
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SuperSneak (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	16-10-2000 22:16									#19
	Tired of ads?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Lancer on 10-16-2000 12:50 PM</font>
Selfrighteousness? Thanks Legman, for attacking us for this selfless effort.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No attack on my part, just an observation in reply to MarkG's labeling the critizism raised here despicable. It's hard to have a fruitful debate when being labeled despicable for raising a valid point. I guess my indignation got the better of me.

Any thoughts on my suggestion earlier?:

There's even talk of creating a new Karen Mills thread for Christmas too. I would think that an announcement including information on where to send possible donations would do.

I think that would keep everyone happy, don't you?

	16-10-2000 22:54									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

AH

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I don't see how giving your cause a nuisance value helps it.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Oh, so you really meant it when you said you considered one sticky thread at the top a nuisance? Hmmmm!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Btw, is your enterprise a registered charity?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>You know the answer to that just as well as we do, AH. Will you please try to keep your rude comments to yourself? That would be most appreciated.

Legman
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>And the Karen Mills threads have been around long enough already for everyone to see.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Not everyone visits this site every day, week or even month, you know.... Lancer's example of Kull is a good one, this project would have never gotten his $100 if the thread hadn't been sticky.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I wouldn't say the threads annoy me, it just seems strange to turn a simple charity appeal into one of the longest going threads in the OT, that's all.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Because otherwise they won't be successful (i.e. not raise enough money?)?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>One could say the selfrighteousness from some people on this issue is equally despicable.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Well, if you don't appreciate the effort of all the generous ppl here, trying to give a poor girl a better life, then I guess you can call their actions despicable as well. Is this subject really worth arguing over???

	16-10-2000 23:01									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 10-16-2000 01:16 PM</font>
No attack on my part, just an observation in reply to MarkG's labeling the critizism raised here despicable.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>You have a strange way of wording your "observations", to say the least.

Funny, how this whole debate started AFTER the thread was "de-topped".

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Any thoughts on my suggestion earlier?:

There's even talk of creating a new Karen Mills thread for Christmas too. I would think that an announcement including information on where to send possible donations would do.

I think that would keep everyone happy, don't you?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>No Legman, it will keep YOU happy, but it won't bring the result we're hoping for, since an announcement disappears from view in a matter of days, sometimes in hours.

So that's not an option. But to be perfectly honest with you, I for one care much more about giving a poor girl a better life, than I care for you having the Off Topic Forum of this site exactly the way YOU want it. Do you honestly think you're not being a tiny bit selfish here? Think about it, which is more important? That girl in the Phillippines, or the way 1 thread in 1 forum is displayed?????
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Narck (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	16-10-2000 23:16									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

And you know what, Legman, I see you failed to answer this question from Lancer. Kindly do so, I can't wait to see your answer! ( <e> ) <center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Lancer on 10-16-2000 06:24 AM</font>
We're building a house for a family that has known nothing but poverty Legman, doesn't that mean something to you?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Narck (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	17-10-2000 00:10									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Temper, temper Narck. Let's try to keep this civil, eh?

Your trying to impose your views on me by posting three times in a row could be seen as proof that I actually had a point and hit a nerve with you.

I'll answer the questions I decide to, and rhetorical ones are not among them. Sorry.

	17-10-2000 00:20									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 10-16-2000 03:10 PM</font>
Temper, temper Narck. Let's try to keep this civil, eh?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Absolutely, I'm just trying to get answers here, but apparently you don't want to provide those.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Your trying to impose your views on me by posting three times in a row could be seen as proof that I actually had a point and hit a nerve with you.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>The fact that I posted 3 times had to do with the fact that I forgot to add certain parts I found important. And yes, it can be seen as proof that you hit a nerve, I don't know where you get the "proof for having a point" part from though. I find your views on this matter pretty disgusting, to say the least.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I'll answer the questions I decide to, and rhetorical ones are not among them. Sorry.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>"We're building a house for a family that has known nothing but poverty Legman, doesn't that mean something to you?" is not rhetorical at all.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Narck (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Narck (edited October 16, 2000).]</font>

	17-10-2000 00:33									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Narck on 10-16-2000 03:20 PM</font>
I find your views on this matter pretty disgusting, to say the least.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

What views of mine do you find disgusting? Try reading my posts again when you've settled down a bit.

The only thing in this thread that's disgusting is the way you come on to me right now...

	17-10-2000 00:51									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 10-16-2000 03:33 PM</font>
What views of mine do you find disgusting? Try reading my posts again when you've settled down a bit.

The only thing in this thread that's disgusting is the way you come on to me right now...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Here's what I find disgusting, or better said, very disappointing: <center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>One could say the selfrighteousness from some people on this issue is equally despicable.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You say that's not an attack? I would like to see what you do consider an attack then. The thread about Karen Mills has been positive until the very end, until AH here decided to make a comment about how annoying he thought the thread was. And then you come in and back him up.
Lots of ppl helped out in there. Did you even read the whole thing?

Let me throw in another point then, for you to ponder about.

This is a private site. If the owners decide they want to help out on an issue they feel is important, then who are you to question that decision? It's their site, they have a right to make a thread sticky, if they so desire. In short, it's none of your business.

Lastly, I would like to mention that I find it more than a little weird that this whole debate started AFTER the thread in question was "de-topped". You could have chosen to say something about it while it was topped (as I'm sure you noticed it before), yet you chose not to. Why not?

	17-10-2000 00:58									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 10-16-2000 03:33 PM</font>
The only thing in this thread that's disgusting is the way you come on to me right now...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>legman, is it possible to give some answers on the real issues that narck raised?

	17-10-2000 01:05									#28
	Got spare money?

Oh, Narck! You didn't read my posts like I adviced you to, did you? I didn't comment on the stickyness of the thread at all. Go back a while and you'll see...

And the quote about selfrighteousness possibly being equally despicable was in direct reply to MarkG's preceeding post where he labeled the critizism despicable. I'd like it if you would include the whole story when you quote me if it's not too much to ask.

All in all, you have a pretty slim case for calling my views disgusting, so it would be good of you to take that statement back as it was totally uncalled for.

Good day Sir.

	17-10-2000 01:13									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

MarkG, didn't see your post...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 10-16-2000 03:58 PM</font>
legman, is it possible to give some answers on the real issues that narck raised?


<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No, not until he ceases trying to impose his views on me by screaming my head off (which is actually an appropriate picture of the tone in his three consecutive posts above). Also, since my views are evidently so disgusting - although he can't seem to really point to the disgusting part - I doubt he's genuinely interested.

[sarcasm]What a nice way to commemorate the Karen Mills cause BTW. [/sarcasm]

	17-10-2000 01:14									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Narck on 10-16-2000 03:51 PM</font>
Lastly, I would like to mention that I find it more than a little weird that this whole debate started AFTER the thread in question was "de-topped". You could have chosen to say something about it while it was topped (as I'm sure you noticed it before), yet you chose not to. Why not?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>oh, it's a coincidence. you see, Legman is a sensitive man. He cant stand being inforced to get a thread on the top of the forum. It's brakes the whole sense of balance in his worls. Threads are supposed to be listed by date! How can a thread stay at the top. And Legman has limits, he is a not a superman. When he saw the thread by AH he just broke into tears! A soulmate! At last someone with the same sensitivies as him! Well, the rest is history....


anyway, i see legman posting
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font> I didn't comment on the stickyness of the thread at all.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
but you did.
you quoted AH saying: Lancer, charity works best when it isn't inflicted on people.
AH believes that we inflicted charity on people by top-ing the thread. you said Amen to that....