25-07-2004 03:27									#31
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Agreed, move in. We're planning to go to war anyway, so moving into their territory won't make much difference

	25-07-2004 03:35									#32
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AIS Heroic moved 6-6-6.

Here is what we see. :-/

	25-07-2004 03:36									#33
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Moved the caravel 6 with its last move.

	25-07-2004 03:38									#34
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Secondary option:

If we take Elfenheim or Balken, the cultural border once captured would enable us to hit Ruhrpott the following turn...

	25-07-2004 03:39									#35
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I think it's likely those 3 units were all they could use to block their shore this turn.

However, that won't matter if they have Ansar in range to block us fully next turn.

I suggest we move the Group A stack 6. the Group B caravels will join them there. If any of those tiles are open next turn, they can all reach them from there.

However, even if a spot is open, a galley will be in the way, and we'll have to risk our caravels to fight through it.

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Secondary option: If we take Elfenheim or Balken, the cultural border once captured would enable us to hit Ruhrpott the following turn...

The two open ladning spots allow us to go for Ruhr directly. However, landing farther north or south is a good idea if the 5 direct tiles are blocked.

	25-07-2004 03:40									#36
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Btw, I strongly suspect those two spears were the Balken and Elfenhein defenders which means, they don't have many defensive units in that area

I say we land and wreck havoc before their Ansar arrive. This is a golden opportunity to at least do SOME damage where they are weak.

	25-07-2004 03:42									#37
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My strategy woulf be this: ove all caravels to one tile that is 4 tiles away from the landing spot (three tiles between the location of the ships and the land).

If the landing zones are occupied next time, then we WAIT one turn while we move our exploratory galley further south as if we don't intend to land there.

I hope that GWT thinks we won't land there and moves at least part of its forces away from the real landing zone.

The turn after we land on GWT's shores.

Aidun

	25-07-2004 03:46									#38
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ok, I have to let it out

WE HAVE 30 FRIGGIN KNIGHTS

We have VET caravels who can kill their reg galleys (with a bit of luck on our side, it's about time we had some)

We can likely land next turn, and cross our fingers that their ansar don't arrive yet.

Did we build this nice little army to send it back crying like little girls because the odds were against us????

Hell, no, we can STILL take Ruhr, it will only be harder.


LET'S GO IN AND KICK SOME MAJOR ASS!!!!!!! YYYYEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	25-07-2004 03:48									#39
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Aidun: If those three units are really all they can scramble at the moment, I think they'll be more cautious later and have Ansar and perhaps other slowmover units stationed there. I doubt we'll get a second chance if the coast remains unblocked in areas next turn.

I currently think we should move the whole stack along with Heroic 6-6-6. This gives access to any of the 5 tiles that would then lead directly to Ruhrpott, and also allows a landing north of Balken if we need and want to do that.

	25-07-2004 03:48									#40
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Eh let's not get too rash.

If I were GWT, I'd move my Ansars back home into the core or inbetween both cores. That provides good coverage for either side. If so, that means their stack is roughly 1 turn (2 turns max) from being in range.

Sure, we have 30 knights. But how do those stack up against 30 Ansar going on the offensive? :-/

	25-07-2004 03:51									#41
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HERE IS THE GAME SAVE (for those curious):

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...ians_740_AD.SAV

Last edited by WhiteBandit on 27-07-2004 at 00:04

	25-07-2004 03:55									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen ok, I have to let it out WE HAVE 30 FRIGGIN KNIGHTS We have VET caravels who can kill their reg galleys (with a bit of luck on our side, it's about time we had some) We can likely land next turn, and cross our fingers that their ansar don't arrive yet. Did we build this nice little army to send it back crying like little girls because the odds were against us???? Hell, no, we can STILL take Ruhr, it will only be harder. LET'S GO IN AND KICK SOME MAJOR ASS!!!!!!! YYYYEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm with you 100%. Let's wreck some havoc! It's clear that the spears and horses were all they can muster and that their defenses in this region are woefully undermanned. Sure, the Ansars are coming but we can fight a few Ansars. Our knights are stronger on defense and we have 30 of them. 30 knights is a VERY large wrecking ball that even GWT is not going to be able to fend off easily.

--Togas

	25-07-2004 04:02									#43
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Also look at the odds.

Even if GWT sends 30 Ansar, what are the odds that they'll kill each of our knights (and muskets)? remote. Looking at their SPEARMAN DEFENSE, I truly doubt Ruhr is particularly well defended (maybe an investigation might actually pay off now) we only need a few straggling knights to take the city and trash it even after GWT counterattacks us.

I say we have some good odds at accomplishing this. Let 'em come and GIT SOME

	25-07-2004 04:10									#44
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Are there also any doves here? They appear to be scarce.

Kloreep I see saw in chat what you guys meant. There is a chance they saw us and then we can't have hope. Lets do 6-6-6 then.

Aidun

	25-07-2004 04:15									#45
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Since GWT indeed spotted us last turn they definatley sent a stack of Ansar to the Ruhrpott region.

Once they are in the Ruhrpott region they can manuever, with ease, Ansar into positions to keep us from landing anywhere at all in the Northern half of the Continent. Basically I'm saying there won't be a LZ next turn either.

I think the only place where we will find a LZ now is in the Southern part of the Continent.

	25-07-2004 04:18									#46
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Well we can either land and burn what we can and hope its enough to weaken them......

or turn around, go home, and prepare for the long, long, long stale mate that will continue until the late industrial age/early modern age as neither side will be able to get a footing on the other's continent (assuming CFC doesn't mess up things on our side).



I say we land and get out the torches myself, we don't have too much to lose given that they are still long enough away from navigation to make a counter attack unlikely before we can build our own coastal "wall".

	25-07-2004 04:20									#47
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What ever is done I think we should keep the main stack hidden as best we can, it would be wrong to assume that they have seen it.

	25-07-2004 04:21									#48
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It's doubtful there will be a LZ, but I think we have to take the chance. We might have caught them with their pants down; you never know.

I think 6-6-6 for Group A, following AIS Heroic; the other caravels (Group B) can form up 4-1 of Heroic. There, Groub B will be able to land if any of the 5 tiles that can directly access Ruhrpott are still unoccupied.

quote: Originally posted by OPD What ever is done I think we should keep the main stack hidden as best we can, it would be wrong to assume that they have seen it.

The problem is, they're already blocking 3 landing spots. Who knows if another few stragglers will come in?

By moving all the way 6-6-6, we can land on the 5 tiles between Balken and Elfenhain, AND we can also land 8 or 9 of Balken or 2 or 3 of Elfenhain. 9 possible landing spots gives us a better chance than 5.

	25-07-2004 04:27									#49
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Yeah thats good

There isn't really anywhere for us to move into a position to land and stay hidden anyway

	25-07-2004 04:32									#50
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Here's a pic of the moves I suggest. The small dots in the sea indicate where Group A (Red) and Group B (Green) would end up this turn; the large dots indicate where the two groups could land next turn.

	25-07-2004 04:39									#51
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it might be better to have the green group end up 1 tile NW of current spot, they would still have the same range but there would be slightly less chance of GWT spotting them and knowing the full extent of the invasion force.

	25-07-2004 04:41									#52
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Thanks Kloreep, that makes it clear to everyone.

Aidun

	25-07-2004 04:44									#53
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quote: Originally posted by OPD it might be better to have the green group end up 1 tile NW of current spot, they would still have the same range but there would be slightly less chance of GWT spotting them and knowing the full extent of the invasion force.

Sounds good.

	25-07-2004 04:51									#54
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Hey guys, what if we move the southernmost ship from green group 6-6-6? We get to do some more recon, and if they are indeed with scarce defensve troops thee might be undefended. Then we land and start this with a punch in the stomach already, instead of just waiting them to close all the beaches. And in case it´s occupyed, not only we have further intel but they may also move the would-be scarce defenders further south. Would still confuse them and every unit out of the landing area is a bonus.

	25-07-2004 04:52									#55
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I wished we has sent a bleepload of empty Galley's to another location so as to draw their attention away from the real LZ.

I'm not saying we should look further South for a LZ; I'm only saying that I'm almost 100% sure that there won't be a LZ for us.

Since we cannot hope to seriously find a LZ that would let us attack Ruhrpott in 1-2 turns, the best we can do now is to try and destroy as much of GCA as possible. I mean that is what CFC will be trying to do. Let's cordinate an opposite coast attack on the South; concentrating on GCA holdings. If CFC is able to cutoff a quick route to the South so that GWT cannot get there as quickly, we may find that we can do a lot of damage. Which means that GWT will then have to spend resources on getting GCA going again.

If we remain near the strenght of GWT while CFC rises far above that of GCA's strength then we will win; especially considering we get another leg up on tech through the survival of CGN. It would only be a matter of time.

I'm going to draw up a detailed proposal that involves letting CGN settle in the area of our Silk Colony. I know that CFC "owns" the area, but it is really doing nothing for them. It is corrupt as can be for them. If we can get 6-8 cities for CGN to operate with in the area, we can really strengthen our alliance. It would involve our settling cities there for CGN and then turning them over to them and then having them Palace jump over to the new location.

	25-07-2004 05:37									#56
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As a lurker, I'll put in my two cents and say I agree with the hawks. The mission may well cost more than it gets us if we can't get Ruhr, and if we still can't land, we can head south or wherever or split up to force GWT to cover the entire coast or do something to at least annoy them and possibly raze a couple cities.

	25-07-2004 06:02									#57
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After thinking about it a bit more, I unfortunately have to agree with Bigfree that our chances of actually making a landing at all are pretty low. They are obviously trying to block it, and with it taking another turn to get into position, the chances of them not being able to come up with another 6 nearby units to block all of those landing sites isn't all that great.

Then the turn after that we are probally looking at their ansars getting into range to also block our landing.



Then there's the possibility of them having half a dozen galleys not too far out of range (just because we can only see 2 doesn't mean they only have 2 nearby). We could even end up losing our invasion force without ever landing at all.....

Not saying we should turn chicken and run (and doing so would leave as bitter of a taste in my mouth as anyone else's), but at the moment I wouldn't rate our chances of getting our units on shore all that high.


In any case, I'd be very surprised if they weren't keeping at least 2 units defending each city. If thats the case (even assuming those spears on the coast came out of cities), then its really inconceivable that they can't block all possible landing sites next turn. Although it might leave them with defenseless cities (not that it matters).

	25-07-2004 06:15									#58
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If we could get some units, even if few, on ground this turn, we could possibly clean the coast next turn for the bigger part of the invasion force to land. Of course, that if they can´t position many reinforcements there at the begining of next turn, and still it might be pointless if they´ve got 30+ ansars in Ruhrpot.

	25-07-2004 07:09									#59
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Unless I'm totally misinterpretting things then there's no way to land any units this turn. Our caravel closest to their shore has used its movement, the others will end their turn where the arrows indicate.

	25-07-2004 07:11									#60
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If Im wrong though and the closest caravel has even 1 movement point left though, then we could waste the galley by the shore and land southeast of the horse. But Im pretty sure we used our last movement point getting to where we are now.