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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
A. Also, anyone can be a literary critic. You don't need to take some exam to qualify as one.
B. Anyone can also write poetry, which is why most of it is utter crap.
C. How do you define good and bad in an area such as poetry where there are no rules? Where there is no right and wrong? Where there is no good and bad...
D. downright insulting, obnoxious, and childish.
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A.
In your case even a passing familiarity with the works in question might help- perhaps you could consider that a 'qualification' or an 'exam'.
B.
Anyone 'could' write poetry. Anyone 'could' paint. Anyone 'could' sculpt. Not everybody does, and this is not a valid reason for dismissing 'most' poetry- because you don't have even the slightest acquaintance with 'most' poetry.
C.
Oh dear, imagine not having a set of rules to define what's good or bad. How awful for you. Still, doesn't seme to stop you dismissing 'most' poetry as 'bad', does it? If anyone's arrogant it's you, silly little boy.
Ther are 'rules' in literature by the way, and in criticism. That you don't know them is no great shock.
D.
Now your powers of precis and self-examination have truly kicked in. Perhaps instead of doing the literary or cultural equivalent of a baby's dummy spit, or an infant's tantrum on the carpet, you could spend usefully spend some time acquainting yourself with some of that poetry you display such a profound ignorance of.
http://academics.vmi.edu/gen_ed/Two_Cultures.html
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Adalbertus
Asher, the things you list as values, technology, wealth, hockey and so on, rate as being civilised, not as being cultured. Both exist and are necessary for human society, you can't simply put away one of them. |
Nonsense, it's just as much culture as going to the Opera. It's not snobby, elitist culture, but I didn't know that was a prerequisite for culture.
Can you explain to me how hockey is less of a cultural component than Opera? 
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
A.
In your case even a passing familiarity with the works in question might help- perhaps you could consider that a 'qualification' or an 'exam'. |
The comment was generalized to everything I have been exposed to, it was not specific to any "works" so it does not require "passing familiarity" with them. 
quote:
Anyone 'could' write poetry. Anyone 'could' paint. Anyone 'could' sculpt. Not everybody does, and this is not a valid reason for dismissing 'most' poetry- because you don't have even the slightest acquaintance with 'most' poetry. |
No one ever does, so this is a rather obtuse argument. It obviously only applies to that which I've been exposed to, and I don't see how it's any different from what I haven't.
Feel free to suggest specifics and I can comment on them individually if you'd like, but something tells me that wouldn't help prove your point. 
quote:
Oh dear, imagine not having a set of rules to define what's good or bad. How awful for you. Still, doesn't seme to stop you dismissing 'most' poetry as 'bad', does it? If anyone's arrogant it's you, silly little boy. |
I've said it was all relative and subjective, point blank. So where's the arrogance? The arrogance comes from you, with the holier-than-thou attitude.
quote:
Ther are 'rules' in literature by the way, and in criticism. That you don't know them is no great shock. |
What are the rules in poetry?
quote:
Now your powers of precis and self-examination have truly kicked in. Perhaps instead of doing the literary or cultural equivalent of a baby's dummy spit, or an infant's tantrum on the carpet, you could spend usefully spend some time acquainting yourself with some of that poetry you display such a profound ignorance of.
http://academics.vmi.edu/gen_ed/Two_Cultures.html |
Erm. If that site's poetry, I stand by my point that it's utterly crap poetry. 
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
"You're happy reading about Sir Wayne McNobby writing poems describing ejaculating in tin cans, while I'm happy reading about tonight's hockey game."
That's not culture - that's news. |
No, it's yet more of the pointless mental masturbation and self-congratulation that passes for literary and cultural criticism from Asher.
He must be proud to have a forum where a science geek like him can throw tantrums at all those people who understood the literature that was beyond him.
Using what passes for his logic, if 'most' poetry is crap because anyone can write it, and as he states, anyone can be a critic, than Asher's criticism of poetry is perforce, crap.
'not snobby, elitist culture, '
Asher Baudelaire McLuhan
So far the only person setting up their view of what constitutes culture to be superior to other people's, is Asher. No shock there.
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
So far the only person setting up their view of what constitutes culture to be superior to other people's, is Asher. No shock there. |
For somebody who purports to be so suave with literature, you can't read very well.
I never asserted one was better than the other, that was all you, baby. 
quote:
Using what passes for his logic, if 'most' poetry is crap because anyone can write it, and as he states, anyone can be a critic, than Asher's criticism of poetry is perforce, crap. |
Hey, you're catching on big guy!
I said it was all relative and subjective, and quite clearly you think my critique is crap, which is golden. 
See, my logic works after all, once you actually think about it. It's something that's so underrated with the artsy people such as yourself. 
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
You're heart is not a plaything,
You're heart is not a toy,
And if you want it broken.
Jus' give it to a boy
He'll say that he loves you dearly
And that he'll always be true...
But when he finds another girl
He'll say good-bye to you... |
quote:
I am a pawn, a usless being
Controlled by simpletons of greater power
No will have i,broken and beaten
A slug to follow the masters trail
Watch me as i grovel at your feet
Control my spinless whimpering body
Defeat my thoughts, my wishs and idea's
Punish me as i fall out of line
An empty shell, i am nothing
A slave
A drone
Your servant till death
You have destroyed my creative mind
to an empty
Barren
Wasteland
Forgotten. |
quote:
Crosses of gold,
And those of stone,
Do not effect the world I roam.
Those only of blood and flesh and life,
Are the ones that cause me strife.
To see the sun my life is done,
A wooden stake my life shall take.
I am immortal, yet I can die,
By the mortal hands belonging to thy.
Where he stands in all the lands a gleam within His eye,
A wooden stake my life shall take,
And then no longer am I. |
quote:
Cry not till now,
Upon these words,
These words that make hearts swell,
But rather hear them as they are,
Maybe written well.
Listen close,
Miss not a word,
And keep their meanings true,
Fear not the truth,
For that they are,
But hold it dear to you.
So listen now,
Without a tear,
To this story true,
For looking back,
To you I swear,
To me this is you.
Looking back upon this year,
This last year in my life,
I see not how my heart could hold,
Without your guiding light.
Looking towards your face to see,
How you pulled me through,
I see the smile,
That all the while,
Made me think things through.
Within this year,
I have seen your life within your eyes.
Never dark nor cold,
Their light doth hold
The only golden prize,
And if you cried,
I wondered why
Fate holdeth you so.
For your kindly heart
And loving mind,
Are here to hold us all,
Throughout this year,
Without a breath,
Standing here in awe. |
quote:
He was the laughter - he was the sun
His hands were dirty when the day was done.
He caressed the roses soft and sweet -
He touched the hearts of those he would meet.
When I was a little girl - his guitar he would play -
And sing me the silly songs he made up that day.
He would take me stores with toys and candy -
Or even to places that were fishy and sandy. |
I don't know about you guys, but reading this post is way better than any NHL playoff game I've ever seen.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
For somebody who purports to be so suave with literature, you can't read very well.
I never asserted one was better than the other, that was all you, baby.
See, my logic works after all, once you actually think about it. It's something that's so underrated with the artsy people such as yourself. |
It might be nice if for once you didn't presume to state what my opinions are, or to misrepresent them.
When have I asserted that my 'culture' was better than another?
I haven't even defined what my 'culture' is, so you're pulling your little factoid out of your arse.
I don't purport to be so 'suave' with literature either- although you might want to check you understand what suave means.
As for logic being so underrated with 'artsy' people such as myself, that's another misrepresentation and inaccuracy.
'See, I may not be a poetry expert, but at least I have logic and reasoning ability, which is infinitly more valuable.
Most of the modern "cultured" people are pompous *****. I'm cultured, just in a different way than you are. I may not be able to recite the precise weight of any tenor in the past 500 years, but I am more connected to the modern culture than you ever will be.
Your culture of old has been replaced with electronic culture, you can accept that now or you can keep denying it.
Culture is in the eye of the beholder. What I'm cultured in will lead to sizable wealth and happiness, what you're cultured in leads to snobiness and arrogant queens. '
Asher Non-Aristotelian Bonnaduce
Memory lapses?
I'd say the snobbiness and arrogance is all yours, silly little boy. But then ignorance is a fertile growth medium for arrogance....
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
It might be nice if for once you didn't presume to state what my opinions are, or to misrepresent them.
When have I asserted that my 'culture' was better than another?
I haven't even defined what my 'culture' is, so you're pulling your little factoid out of your arse. |
You don't need to assert it verbosely, anyone who can read your trite crap can hear the arrogance and condescending tones oozing out of it.
quote:
I don't purport to be so 'suave' with literature either- although you might want to check you understand what suave means. |
Thank you for proving my point.
quote:
As for logic being so underrated with 'artsy' people such as myself, that's another misrepresentation and inaccuracy.
Memory lapses?
I'd say the snobbiness and arrogance is all yours, silly little boy. But then ignorance is a fertile growth medium for arrogance.... |
Nonsense, I'm trolling, and you're biting back with a passion full of effeminite "little boy" references and quotes to obscure literature references as if it proves anything. Further, it's highly amusing to me, because you apparently don't get that you're doing the same thing I'm doing, while condemning what I'm doing at the same time.
I wouldn't be surprised if you threw your purse at me if we were having this conversation in the real world. 
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:36
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And I agree Monolith, you should embed the imagery in the poem.
But I've read too much poetry lately that has simply made the embedding the only goal, without bothering to work on the imagery.
You end up trying to work it out, and then be disappointed when there's really nothing in the poem to work with.
Now, points to the one who can figure out this one.
Before I leave, my lords, I warn you through
my words, it would be hard to find today
In all the towns, Griseldas, three or two
When put to similarly strict assays
You would see the gold, so poorly alloyed
With brass though the coin appear so fine
It would rather break than bend in time.
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