17-05-2004 21:06									#31
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Japher, we laugh at people with your opinions. Know this :

1.) There IS NO WAR ON TERROR
2.) Iraq has NO LINKS with the 9/11 plane crashes

If you're believing this BS, then there's simply no arguing with you. You think Al-Q and Saddam were working together? There has been no shred of evidence to indicate so. Not a single one. You need to stop spouting Fox News propaganda, and realise that there was no justification for the attack on Iraq. Afganistan, perhaps, but there were possible ties between the Taliban and Al-Q. This justification doesn't exist in Iraq.

Where has this idea come from, held only by Americans, that because of an act of violence committed by a small terroist group, that they must invade another country, under the pretense of looking for WMD. Its like saying "cake" plus "precipitation" equals "a light shade of yellow".

Where's your connection?

*sigh*

Why am I arguing with brainwashed teenagers on internet forums anyway?

-Jam

	17-05-2004 21:06									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin This is indeed very interesting, if the alleged bomb in fact contained sarin. As I see it, there's at least two possibilites. Either there was at least some gas left in Iraq, that the insurgents got their hands on and now might be a serious thread for the coalition. Or maybe some of the foreigners that might be involved in the struggle against the coalition have shipped it into the country.

Acccording to what I heard on the news, it seems unlikely that it was brought in - the artillary shell ppears to have been Iraqi, and would have been difficult (though not impossible) to transport in).

Assuming i was Iraqi, though, it begs the question o if former regime members did planted it or some other group did. If it wasn't former regime members, how did they find it, and were they aware that it contained Sarin?

	17-05-2004 21:07									#33
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FAQ on Sarin

	17-05-2004 21:10									#34
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Iraq wasn't to have scud missles at the time of the Gulf War.

Bush, Sr. - Israel. Our mutual friends at the U.N. ask that you ignore the scuds raining down on you, even though you're not involved in this effort.

Israel - Grrrrrrr. Fine For now.

Bush, Sr. - Listen, we know it's tough. Our mutual friends at the U.N. advise you hand out gas masks and hunker down.

Israel - We have the damned gas masks distributed!

Bush, Sr. - Well, that's good.
Our mutual friends at the U.N. say all will be well, eventually. Show restraint.
You've had it worse, haven't you ?


Iraq throwing scuds at Israel was like me kicking someone's little brother's ass.

	17-05-2004 21:11									#35
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Oh, lord, an old shell. This gets even more dubious.

Up to now, every single test done on some old Iraqi shells that innitially came up with a possible sign were wrong in the end.

if it isd an old Iraqi shell, one wonders whether simply an old shell from the Iraq-Iran war was found by insurgents and they rigged it like they have done countless times-which would make this very uninteresting news.

	17-05-2004 21:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Both are true, or at least one, this is part of a war on terror... or did you miss that part?

Japher, while I sometime agree with your comments and sometimes agree, I generally think you're smarter than this. Even the Bush administration now rarely repeats its ridiculous innuendo that the war on Iraq had anything to do with terrorism. Why give life to their original blatant lies?

	17-05-2004 21:12									#37
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Iraq throwing scuds at Israel was like me kicking someone's little brother's ass.

Did you just call israel an ass?

	17-05-2004 21:13									#38
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Right. This is why some understand zip about Iraq.

	17-05-2004 21:15									#39
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Sarin was used in Japan. Hadn't we better invade and destroy the government of Japan too?

	17-05-2004 21:16									#40
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Iraque has anything to do with the war on terror.
- why is OBL mad at the USA? because they have troops in the holy land (SA)
- why were there troups in SA? To make sure that Sadam wouldn't try to attack on or another country
- *if* Sadam did indeed remove his WMD, he most obviously did it b/c of those troops
- but since these troops really really made much muslims unhappy, something must happen. Either Sadam should prove that he was to be trusted, so the troops could go home, or he should be gone.

A didn't work, and wouldn't work in any time in any year soon, thus B must happen.
Sadam must be removed. Pherhaps he had no WMD indeed, but who dares to take the risk to leave someone has lunatic as Sadam in a country that might have WMD?

Sadam is the only one who USED WMD in recent history!
NK didn't, Libya didn't, Iran didn't.......... only Sadam used weapons.
And he didn't use them for a long time, because of the american troops in SA.
And those troops were causing 9/11.

	17-05-2004 21:17									#41
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quote: Originally posted by debeest Sarin was used in Japan. Hadn't we better invade and destroy the government of Japan too?

We already did that once.

	17-05-2004 21:18									#42
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quote: Sadam is the only one who USED WMD in recent history!

quote: Iran didn't..........

	17-05-2004 21:21									#43
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quote: Japher, we laugh at people with your opinions

Laugh away

quote: 1.) There IS NO WAR ON TERROR 2.) Iraq has NO LINKS with the 9/11 plane crashes

OK

quote: You need to stop spouting Fox News propaganda, and realize that there was no justification for the attack on Iraq. Afghanistan, perhaps, but there were possible ties between the Taliban and Al-Q. This justification doesn't exist in Iraq.

Blind...

quote: Why am I arguing with brainwashed teenagers on internet forums anyway?

I'm neither brainwashed, nor a teenager.

Spewing out such ignorant assumptions as fact, Jamski, makes me feel that you are such a poster. Countless facts have proven you otherwise, but you choosing not to acknowledge them are just as ridiculous as the conclusions I draw from them.

quote: Even the Bush administration now rarely repeats its ridiculous innuendo that the war on Iraq had anything to do with terrorism. Why give life to their original blatant lies?

Ask Kuwait and Israel who they feared? Ask Iran and Syria why they need nuclear weapons, or better yet, why they stopped needing them once Saddam was removed from power? Your idea of what terror is eludes me, and you blindness to the reduction in terror acts, terror threats, genocide, and fascist power in the ME is annoying.

Cybershy

	17-05-2004 21:22									#44
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Right. This is why some understand zip about Iraq.

Don't advertize yourself.

BTW, Iraq wasn't prevented from having SCUDs until after the first US-Iraq war. And guess what, we found no SCUDs. Evyerthing the Iraqis weren't supposed to have, they either didn't have or we close on the line (like their missiles that were designed to go 150 klicks when their fueled weight was accounted for, but if not, went further) and were destroyed.

Japher, you do realize that before the war I fully expected WMDs to be found. If I'm incredulous now, it's only because every signle time they've said they found WMDs, it turns out to have been completely false.

	17-05-2004 21:23									#45
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Sadam is the only one who USED WMD in recent history!

How recent is 'recent'?

	17-05-2004 21:25									#46
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Wouldn't World War II be considered recent history?


If so . . . . . . .

	17-05-2004 21:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Wouldn't World War II be considered recent history?

I'm guessing not when you're talking "recent" in terms of the timeline of WMDs..

	17-05-2004 21:28									#48
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...ea/iraq_sarin_4

It was rigged as an IED, looks like the Insurgents found the wmd for us, what a bunch of nice guys.

	17-05-2004 21:28									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Japher This isn't about the US' accounting methods... It's about the US' claim that Iraq had WMD.

You usually do better than this, Japher. However, you totally ignore the counterarguments and flies blindly.

The US's assertion that Iraq had BCN weapons was based on the fact that there were weapons they could not account for. Ultimately, this is about accounting methods. Contrasting Iraq with the US merely highlights the difficulty. If a powerful and advanced nation such as the US could not create a flawless system to account for all its BCN weapons, what hope would Iraq have for that?

quote: Originally posted by Japher The point is, a WMD was found in Iraq, why is that so hard to believe?

Correction: a shell of unknown origin suspected to contain a nerve agent was found in Iraq.

And?

quote: Originally posted by Japher And, why are you defending him, Che?

Perhaps to stop the warmongers from perpetuating the same old refuted lie again?

quote: Originally posted by Japher Hell, I bet we could find a whole cache of weapons over there that they weren't suppose to have and you would somehow find a way to dismiss the findings.

Another falllacy.

	17-05-2004 21:32									#50
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It's their accounting, UR, not ours. I'll stop at that and not bother correcting you entirely.

	17-05-2004 21:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Edan I'm guessing not when you're talking "recent" in terms of the timeline of WMDs..

why??


Ask Japan if nuclear weapons do not count as weapons of mass destruction.

	17-05-2004 21:33									#52
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I wouldn't consider WW2 recent history. But I would consider vietnam and agent orange recent history. And if you include things like napalm and cluster bombs, there's the gulf wars and afgahnistan.

Of course, then we get into the deffinition of WMD. If you think it's 'unconventional' weapons, then surely napalm fits. If you think it's 'uncontrolable' weapons that do mass undirected damage, then surely cluster bombs with their huge amount of damage and unexploded bombs left over for civilians to find would fit. (what is the detonation rate for the bomblets - 40%? 60%?)

	17-05-2004 21:35									#53
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quote: You usually do better than this, Japher. However, you totally ignore the counterarguments and flies blindly.

What Che did was the same as answering a question with a question. Turning the table like that proves nothing to the contrary. You must see the falicy in such an argument. You cannot justify Iraq poor ability to account for their weapons on the US' inability to do the same thing.

This would be like conficting a man of another man's crimes only because they are of the same {fill in the blank}...

quote: Perhaps to stop the warmongers from perpetuating the same old refuted lie again?

Seriously doubt that, Che lives for perpetuating lies, he's communist after all...

quote: Another falllacy.

A hypothetical can't be a fallacy.

	17-05-2004 21:37									#54
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand It's their accounting, UR, not ours. I'll stop at that and not bother correcting you entirely.

You should read my entire post instead of just a word or two.

	17-05-2004 21:40									#55
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quote: You should read my entire post instead of just a word or two

I missed the part where Saddam threw out the weapon inspectors and refused to let them back in, and then, when he did (a good decade later), did his best to deceive them... of what? That's a good question.

	17-05-2004 21:42									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I missed the part where Saddam threw out the weapon inspectors and refused to let them back in, and then, when he did (a good decade later), did his best to deceive them... of what? That's a good question.

five years = decade? :confused

	17-05-2004 21:43									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Japher This would be like conficting a man of another man's crimes only because they are of the same {fill in the blank}...

This analogy doesn't hold. A better one is, if a large corporatiion could not account for all its inventory, what is the hope for a corner store for achieving this goal?

quote: Originally posted by Japher A hypothetical can't be a fallacy.

Sure it can be. It can be a slippery slope, for starters.

	17-05-2004 21:44									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun why??

Cause WMDs are only about ~90+ years old, give or take. ~60 years ago isn't recent in that context.

	17-05-2004 21:44									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sava But if this is all they had, this war was a bigger mistake than I thought.

I'm sorry but whatever gave you the idea I was talking about Sadam?

	17-05-2004 21:46									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger A better one is, if a large corporatiion could not account for all its inventory, what is the hope for a corner store for achieving this goal?

Actually the correct question to ask is, who's fault is it you forgot to keep your paperwork when the IRS decides to audit you?