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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > BREAKING NEWS: nerve gas found in road side bomb in Iraq
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The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 19:48
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BREAKING NEWS: nerve gas found in road side bomb in Iraq Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Just coming through on the wires, a road side bomb in Iraq was filled with nerve gas.

Check CNN.

Hmm? I thought Saddam did not have WMD?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 19:50 Visit Asher's homepage!
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WTF does this have to do with Saddam?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 19:51 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Kimmitt did not say where the weapon was found nor did he say if it originated in Iraq.


Wow, one shell. I guess the war was justified after all.

Then again, the Coalition's been wrong everytime before they claimed they found something.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 19:53
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This is indeed very interesting, if the alleged bomb in fact contained sarin. As I see it, there's at least two possibilites. Either there was at least some gas left in Iraq, that the insurgents got their hands on and now might be a serious thread for the coalition. Or maybe some of the foreigners that might be involved in the struggle against the coalition have shipped it into the country.

In either case, it's hard to ignore the irony of it all.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 19:59
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quote:
WTF does this have to do with Saddam?


Exactly.

-Jam

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:01
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Nerve gas? What type?

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:02
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Something must have happened with sadam's WMD.
Everybody knows he once got them, and there hasn't been found any evidence that it has been destroyed. (like there's no evidence that it's still ready to use either)

Either these weapons are brought to other countries, or he has hid them deeply into the desert, or he did indeed destroy his weapons, which leaves open the question why he didn't documentate it very accurate so he could show it to the UN.
If I would have WMD and whole the world would want me to destroy them, I would either aim it on the world, or indeed destroy it openly so everybody could see it. It would be a waste to destroy the weapons only to see the world not believe you did it.

Conclusion, the weapons must be somewhere.

I never understand all those anti-bush people who say that the war was unjustified because there are no WMD.
Answer me, what the hell happened to those WMD in your opinion? Did Sadam eat them or something?

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski


Exactly.

-Jam


Sadam, WMD, Iraque....... doesn't make any bells ring at my side either

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:07
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quote:
which leaves open the question why he didn't documentate it very accurate so he could show it to the UN.

Except that the Iraqi goverment... did?

Edit: I just spent 20 bloody minutes searching for the news item considering my claim above, about which I remember seeing in news around December, 2002. I'm referring to the 10 000+ page WMD report published by the Iraqi goverment in response to the claims that it has not destroyed all of it's banned weapons. It was a relatively big news event, since the goverment published it in front of both the press and weapons inspectors.

Last edited by VJ on 17-05-2004 at 20:31

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
Prince
London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:09
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Early work on Sarin was carried out by scientists in Nazi Germany. After WWII the UK, the US and Canada made a secret treaty to develop it and work was done at Porton Down in England.

If you find Sarin somewhere in the world and wonder where it originated the front runner is still UK, USA or Canada.

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ

Except that the Iraqi goverment... did?


ok, assume they did, then why didn't they show it to the inspectors........... that would have helped for sure!

(of course it would have helped Sadam, not those 500.000 he killed)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:13 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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VJ, preliminary tests indicate Sarin.

quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
Something must have happened with sadam's WMD.
Everybody knows he once got them, and there hasn't been found any evidence that it has been destroyed.

Either these weapons are brought to other countries, or he has hid them deeply into the desert, or he did indeed destroy his weapons, which leaves open the question why he didn't documentate it very accurate so he could show it to the UN.


First, the United States has at least two hundred tons of chemical weapons unaccounted for. They may have have been destroyed without being documented, misplaced, lost, or stolen. We don't know. They're just missing. We have much better acountablity than some Third-world shithole like Iraq.

Second, it is generally believed the Hussain wanted the Iranians and Kurds to think he still had weapons, so that the former wouldn't try and attack and the latter wouldn't try and rebel.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:14
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quote:
Everybody knows he once got them, and there hasn't been found any evidence that it has been destroyed.

Most of them do not stand the test of time very well. In other words, there's a best-before-date for most so called weapons of massdestruction. So your conclutions are based on false premises.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:22 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Iraq with banned weapons.
I would never have believed it possible.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:22 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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And here I was hoping for an intelligent comment from Texas. Disappointed again.

CyberShy is offline CyberShy

Emperor
Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kropotkin

Most of them do not stand the test of time very well. In other words, there's a best-before-date for most so called weapons of massdestruction. So your conclutions are based on false premises.


'most of them' doesn't cover 'all of them'
and apparently some still work. (read todays news)

cheg, of course it's valid to question the USA's way of handling these kinds of weapons, but that's another discussion. Unless you of course suggest that the bomb that exploded today is one of those unaccounted american bombs.

And your 2nd theory is interesting, and most obviously true in some way. But that still leaves the question open why Sadam didn't come with the evidence when the USA were knocking on his door.

It's a little bit silly to keep the idea of having WMD to keep small enemies out of your territory, but fail to see that a bigger enemy will break your door because of it.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:26 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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What Che? What's it going to take, bud?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:35 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by CyberShy
cheg, of course it's valid to question the USA's way of handling these kinds of weapons, but that's another discussion. Unless you of course suggest that the bomb that exploded today is one of those unaccounted american bombs.


I really hate having to hold people's hands. Okay, real simple. If the United States, which has vastly superior accounting methods and a much stricter hierarchy and oversight for handling these weapons cannot account for all of its own weapons, is it reasonable to assume that a Third-World nationa with very poor accountability and oversight would be able to achieve 100% knowledge of all weapons it may have had?

quote:
And your 2nd theory is interesting, and most obviously true in some way. But that still leaves the question open why Sadam didn't come with the evidence when the USA were knocking on his door.


They tried. The problem is, they don't know what happened to a lot of it or can't account for its destruction. We know they destroyed a lot of weapons without documenting it.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:39 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Another illustration of their stupidity, if they did.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:40
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quote:
We know they destroyed a lot of weapons without documenting it.


We do? Prove that they are destroyed... oh, you can't. You don't even have some documents to question.


quote:
If the United States, which has vastly superior accounting methods and a much stricter hierarchy and oversight for handling these weapons cannot account for all of its own weapons, is it reasonable to assume that a Third-World nationa with very poor accountability and oversight would be able to achieve 100% knowledge of all weapons it may have had?


This isn't about the US' accounting methods... It's about the US' claim that Iraq had WMD. What was found may or may not be from Sadam, it may just be a small portion of what he had, or it may of been all he had. The point is, a WMD was found in Iraq, why is that so hard to believe? And, why are you defending him, Che?

Hell, I bet we could find a whole cache of weapons over there that they weren't suppose to have and you would somehow find a way to dismiss the findings.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:43 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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And Japher hammers the nailhead right into the ground.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:43
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Proposition A : Saddam was an evil murderer of innocent civillians
Proposition B : Saddam had WMD

If A and B are true, then why didn't he use them on the American forces?
If either one is not true, then why the war? USA has WMD but is (supposedly) not evil. Libya the reverse.

The real question is, though : Since we're SURE than N.Korea has WMD and is "evil", why does the Bush administration do nothing against them?
Answer : They are clearly not dumb enough to attack a mad dictator
with access to WMD. Therefore they KNEW that Saddam was "clean", and they waited for the report proving his WMDs were gone, so they'd know it was safe to attack.

Proven by logic!

-Jam

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:52
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I think the bigger news story is that the President of the Iraqi governing council has been killed.

And diplomat, post an article or something.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:55
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quote:
If A and B are true, then why didn't he use them on the American forces?


Cause he's a coward who thought it would be so much easier to become a martyr. Also, he was an aggressor not a defender.

quote:
If either one is not true, then why the war?


Both are true, or at least one, this is part of a war on terror... or did you miss that part?

quote:
The real question is, though : Since we're SURE than N.Korea has WMD and is "evil", why does the Bush administration do nothing against them?


Because they aren't blowing up our buildings.

quote:
They are clearly not dumb enough to attack a mad dictator
with access to WMD. Therefore they KNEW that Saddam was "clean", and they waited for the report proving his WMDs were gone, so they'd know it was safe to attack.

Proven by logic!


I fart better logic than that!

The ME is and has been a hot bed for terrorist activity. Saddam was and is a known supporter of such terrorist activity not only amongst his own people but those of neighboring countries (see Kuwait). He had the desire and ability to continue to threaten this country through acts of terror or acts of war, either directly or non-directly. Our actions in Iraq have shown that we will not go gently and other would be threats have since voiced their support in our efforts (see Libya).

Most ppls problem is that thinks this attack was an attack on Iraq, and only Iraq, and have already forgotten Afghanistan and the fighting that continues there. These battles are not individual wars but are a part of a bigger war, a war against terrorist hot bed communities, supporters, and those who harbor them… Just as Bush said he would do in 2001.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 20:55
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I think the bigger news you people seem to be missing is that the insurgents have access to chemical weapons.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I think the bigger news you people seem to be missing is that the insurgents have access to chemical weapons.
a decade old artillery shell... OOOOOHHHH ALERT THE MEDIA... according to CNN, the shell was improvised and detonated... not doing much of anything. Sorry, find me a hangar filled with chemical weapons, and you got a story. But if this is all they had, this war was a bigger mistake than I thought.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 17-05-2004 21:03
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quote:
Sorry, find me a hangar filled with chemical weapons, and you got a story. But if this is all they had, this war was a bigger mistake than I thought.


Just as I thought.




I could give them a definitive proof of a martian, but they'd want the whole race. Yet, still, they see one dumb republican and that's proof enough that we're all stupid.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 21:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Also, he was an aggressor not a defender.


This should be interesting.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 21:04
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1. 100% the the prelimenary tests done that "found chemical weapons" were found negative at the end. Until all the tests are done, this is as believable

2. IF that is Sarin, that is no proof that is came from past Iraqi stocks as opposed to being newly created, or from stocks elsewhere. If we remember, it was sarin that the Japanese terror group was able to make on their own.

blackice is offline blackice
Emperor
Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 17-05-2004 21:05 Visit blackice's homepage!
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post an article or something.

Interesting it was an older shell, ok where are the rest?
Buried in the cemetary? A religious building? It is interesting to note it was also designed to mix the gas after being fired from artillery. So this was not designed recently and could link back to the 90's when Sadman had these weapons. Obviously it was not designed by a cult in Japan either. This was obviously designed for a military for military use.

 
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