19-05-2004 21:22									#61
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Comrade Tassadar you on drugs, intoxicated? obviously your thinking is less than sound.

chegitz guevara what groups do you belong too?
How involved in this subject matter are you? Follow it closely I guess eh?

Ok put it to the test give us some examples of you treating women like chit.

	19-05-2004 21:23									#62
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tass you can fight for and the workers paradise and men supremacy...pick one....or the other...

	19-05-2004 21:25									#63
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Comrade Tassadar you on drugs, intoxicated? obviously your thinking is less than sound.

Are you a part of the womanese conspiracy? Because let me tell you: This organisation knows *no borders*. They operate freely in every democracy, in every despotism. They have agents poised to take control of *every government on Earth*.
They just don't need to because they are already accomplishing their goals in the United States. The systematic repression and ultimate elimination of the male people's.

	19-05-2004 21:37									#64
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I'm reminded of a Swedish feminists who said that only male supremacists cared if some men were abused by their wives. I do hope that wasn't what she meant, but it's what she said.

	19-05-2004 21:43									#65
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Tass: Those evil women who cry abuse! They must be stopped, Comrade! They are just trying to ruin the lives of men! Of course we all know that they are all just as powerful as men and are merely doing this so they can be the dominant gender! But of course when the few men who say they were abused are always right, unlike when women do so, because women are so wrong.

	19-05-2004 21:48									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Tass: Those evil women who cry abuse! They must be stopped, Comrade! They are just trying to ruin the lives of men! Of course we all know that they are all just as powerful as men and are merely doing this so they can be the dominant gender! But of course when the few men who say they were abused are always right, unlike when women do so, because women are so wrong.

Though I'd prefer that you refer to them as "women".

	19-05-2004 21:50									#67
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please let somebody say something about capitalism so that Tass is distracted...then we move in for the kill ....what the microphones is still on?

	19-05-2004 21:50									#68
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Last Conformist I do too.

Well there you have it people. How anyone can take either of those two fools seriously again I do not know.

They mock both genders in harm in one fell swoop. Rather disturbing and I sincerely hope niether is in the postion of influence related to either cause.

	19-05-2004 21:51									#69
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you know that they are just janking your chain right?

	19-05-2004 21:56									#70
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quote: Originally posted by blackice GePap I simply gave you an example to show your blanket assuption is nothing more than that. Who was talking about a disaster? Let's go on with your point though, you are making an assumption women can not take care of themselves in a disaster? Very degrading, How many professional women helped in 9/11, how many women bystanders helped men out in that disaster lot's, as far as kids go well of course. Biologically humm ok women are important but they do not have children on their own, nor is it in the best interest of children not to have a male in their lives. No I disagree we are equally as important to the food chain...

A single male can enseminate hundreads of women, while one woman is needed for one child- if you want 10 children, you generally need 10 women- one single man though would sufice. So if we have 10 men and 10 women and 9 must die but the species continue, then you perhaps keep 2 men (for genetic variance) and 9 women, and we off 8 guys and 1 woman.

So Men as a sex are as important as women- any single individual man thought is far more expendable than any single woman, smply given the realities of procriation. As for "fatherhood", countless of children though hisotry have grown up with one, or two parents missing. the species moves on.

	19-05-2004 21:57									#71
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Extremely lagged double post deleted

Last edited by Last Conformist on 19-05-2004 at 22:03

	19-05-2004 21:58									#72
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My experience is that women are generally treated more kindly by the criminal justice system.

I think this is mainly because women are vastly more law abiding than men. And that is understood so deeply by all of us that it is part of one's very sense of what feminity is. Perhaps there is a sort of unspoken acceptance that a woman who breaks the criminal law was probably driven to it - a fact many times true of men but our sense of masculinity makes us much readier to interprete criminal behaviour on the part of men as wholly inspired by pride or self interest.

Or maybe it is just a sort of gallantry.

For myself I welcome it. Because harsh treatment of wrong doers achieves nothing save to sate our need for them to suffer for their misdeeds. So if we, for whatever reason, don't feel that about a particular criminal or particular group of criminals I see no need to be harsh just to achieve some elegance of equality.

There are some exceptions, one of which is extremely visible just now in the UK. Just occasionally a woman becomes viewed as the embodiment of evil. In my time there have been three such in the UK. The first (and greatest) was Myra Hindley - the female half of the Moors murderers. With a man named Brady she abducted, tortured and killed a succession of children - burying the bodies on the Yorkshire Moors. The tape of one little girl pleading for her life is the single most harrowing thing I have ever heard.

This woman was reviled in this country above any other person. And far, far more than was Brady.

The second is a woman called Mary Bell. While a child herself she brutally killed an infant. An imporatant legal point in her case concerned whether she could - at her tender age - know she was doing wrong. I seem to recall she was 10 or 11.

But her age did not save her from a depth of public disgust which exceeds any (until recently) other than that reserved for Hindley.

The third case is a current one. An appalling paedophile abducted and killed two young girls. This third women did no more than provide the man - her partner - with an alibi. When he was convicted for the murders she was charged and convicted of perjury. And given an apropriate sentence.

Of course because of the time she had served awaiting trial her date for realease would have occured relatively soon after the trial. And all the sooner because of measures recently introduced aimed at cutting down on our overpopulated prisons. But the public would not have it. the Home Secretary found himself compelled to take a measure through parliament designed to allow him to at least keep her inside for the full period up to the half way mark of her sentence.

And there are numerous people who say they will seek her out as soon as she is released. The tabloid press feed us an endless steam of vitriol about the woman. Meanwhile the actual (male) child murderer just serves his sentence pretty much forgotten.

It is being asked why these particular women have attracted such exaggerated hate. It is easy to suggest that children having been the victims of the crimes plays some part. But whether that is altogether right I don't know.

To set against this the hanging of a woman not long before we got rid of the death penalty attracted then - and still attracts now - a very great deal of pathos here. And I think that is because for a man's body to be subjected to violent and degrading treatment does not seem out of kilter with the rather aggressive and combative nature of the male. Whereas the same treatment afforded to a woman does not seem at all the same. Something to do with motherhood perhaps. And the particular tenderness that is somehow innate to the female. Anyway I would not be surprised if that particular hanging does not have something to do with the outcone of the succession of free votes in the house of commons that at one time we had here. Some of those who voted against the death penalty were acting on the ouitermost edge of their personal liberality in doing so. The pathos attaching to that particular case could well be the factor which tipped them over.

Anyway my answer is no. I hope that men can eventually be teated more gently by criminal justice but until we manage to progress so far let us be glad if we can at least manage to have sufficiently tender feelings so as feel OK about trteating women chivalrously in that context.

I am sure we can find some other way to even things up for men in the equality stakes. An equal height for the heels of our shoes, perhaps, or equality in the wearing of mascara. Or the right to slam doors when cross or to weep at weddings.

There are plenty of vertile grounds for those who like to ensure that absurdities of all kinds should be exhibited with an attractive meaure of uniformity without looking to decrease such kindness as may be tolerated in the world.

	19-05-2004 21:58									#73
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You said that already.

	19-05-2004 21:58									#74
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DeathByTheSword oh ya but just the same I also think it shows a lot of their mind set.

Kind of like the dj's that were fired for joking about the beheading in Iraq. Thier humor and chain pulling was equaly misplaced and ill conceived.

I am sure both are capable of starting thier own thread joking about gender abuse, although I am not sure it would last long or win them any brownie points with the people at large.

	19-05-2004 22:00									#75
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true words

	19-05-2004 22:00									#76
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I hate to say it, but I feel no shame

	19-05-2004 22:09									#77
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East Street Trader

quote: I think this is mainly because women are vastly more law abiding than men.etc..

Humm with the three strikes rule in Calafornia alone women sent to prison went up 500 something% far exceeding that of men, some 200 something%. Looking into this you will find many examles the same world wide.

Also it is shown that women are human and capable of the same level of violence and crime as men. Is what your saying that they are more rehabilitatable? That too does not show up in the statistics. In fact it is the same truth for both men and women, they are equal in this regard.

So the studies and statistics have shown that in fact as far as the crime goes we are equal, in fact most studies show a large increase in female crimes. The sentence is different lesser time for the same crime.

Comrade Tassadar honestly I for one am not surprised...

	19-05-2004 22:13									#78
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Nice to see that women have added crime (and for that matter, auto insurance rates) to the areas where they've achieved equality.

	19-05-2004 22:15									#79
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Talk about having an axe to grind! It's so OBVIOUS, blackice. Everything I can recall seeing from you in this forum has been a bunch of whining about the big bad woman.

It's really pathetic, dude. Nobody buys what you're trying to sell, and for good reason.

-Arrian

	19-05-2004 22:15									#80
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Humm with the three strikes rule in Calafornia alone women sent to prison went up 500 something% far exceeding that of men, some 200 something%. Looking into this you will find many examles the same world wide.

a jump from 100 to 600 is a 500% jump, while a jump form 9000 to 18000 is a 200% jump. Yet 600 < 18000 still.

quote: Also it is shown that women are human and capable of the same level of violence and crime as men. Is what your saying that they are more rehabilitatable? That too does not show up in the statistics. In fact it is the same truth for both men and women, they are equal in this regard.

On an individual basis yes they are- statisticly? No. Women prefer psychological violence. Just look at schools.

	19-05-2004 22:17									#81
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quote: Originally posted by blackice chegitz guevara what groups do you belong too?

Currently, jst the Socialist Party USA and the Labor Party USA. Previously, more than I can remember, some feminist, some socialist, Jewish, Asian, Arab, and a men's group.

quote: How involved in this subject matter are you? Follow it closely I guess eh?

More closely than most. Politics flows in my blood.

quote: Ok put it to the test give us some examples of you treating women like chit.

There was the aforementioned arrest of the woman getting beaten by her boyfriend. I've known more than a few men who refused to pay any child support and women with children who didn't get any child support. I've known women who got beat and women who started fights. And then there's the general atitude towards women in this culture. Even before this "pimp" culture started becomng popular maong our youth, far too many men simple stated an opinion that women were just a comfortable hole.

Maybe in Canada you leave under the leash of Dworking and McKinnnon, but here in the U.S., patriarchy isn't just in control, it's on the offensive.

	19-05-2004 22:19									#82
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I would argue that patriarchy isn't entirely in control in the US, Che, but I agree that it's on the offensive.

-Arrian

	19-05-2004 22:21									#83
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Also it is shown that women are human and capable of the same level of violence and crime as men.

Possibility and probability are two different things. I have had far more crime committed against me by men than by women.

	19-05-2004 23:23									#84
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Perhaps we should have a male figure to complement the female representation of justice?

	19-05-2004 23:33									#85
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Women

Last edited by Gibsie on 20-05-2004 at 00:58

	19-05-2004 23:45									#86
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Boy, we sure have it rough, don't we men?

	19-05-2004 23:53									#87
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I agree with blacklice. Imran does make lame comments.

	19-05-2004 23:58									#88
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Look who's talking TheBum

	20-05-2004 00:05									#89
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Right-wing knuckle-dragging neanderthal.

	20-05-2004 00:25									#90
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Been quite most of the way through this but can no longer. The suggestion has been made to you Blackice to speak to an woman who was abused. Well here ya' go now's your chance.

I suffered physical abuse for over 5 years and let me tell you it is not just something that you can politely get up and walk away from. It just isn't that easy. You have to understand and I personally don't think any of you can unless you've been there, what type of emotional, mental and physical toal that it takes on you. And these so called agencies.....yeah right Oh there so much help as are the police. The police tell you "he's your husband don't you think you two can work this out.'' Until you have a loaded shotgun pointed at your face or been beaten up in your place of employment, or had a broken finger dislocated shoulder 3 cracked ribs cracked cheek bone (all from one beating at my office) or had to have your kids run go get the manager of your ex's apartment complex because daddy's beating mommy up in the corner........when you've endured that and can sit on my side of the fence and still be alive to talk about it........then you can talk. Until then talk what you know. If you are going to talk the talk you better be able to walk the walk.