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:) Smiley
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USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:36
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Time to hold up the other half of the sky. EST, bring it on!
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Originally posted by East Street Trader
My experience is that women are generally treated more kindly by the criminal justice system.
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What sort of experience do you have with the criminal justice system?
quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
I think this is mainly because women are vastly more law abiding than men. And that is understood so deeply by all of us that it is part of one's very sense of what feminity is. Perhaps there is a sort of unspoken acceptance that a woman who breaks the criminal law was probably driven to it - a fact many times true of men but our sense of masculinity makes us much readier to interprete criminal behaviour on the part of men as wholly inspired by pride or self interest.
Or maybe it is just a sort of gallantry.
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I dunno what the justice system in the UK is, but in the USA, verdicts are determined by a jury of randomly selected citizens, of which half are women.
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Originally posted by East Street Trader
For myself I welcome it. Because harsh treatment of wrong doers achieves nothing save to sate our need for them to suffer for their misdeeds. So if we, for whatever reason, don't feel that about a particular criminal or particular group of criminals I see no need to be harsh just to achieve some elegance of equality.
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Criminal punishment exists for the same reason that the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) doctrine kept nukes from flying between the US and USSR. It acts as a deterrent by ensuring that the offender loses something.
quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
There are some exceptions, one of which is extremely visible just now in the UK. Just occasionally a woman becomes viewed as the embodiment of evil. In my time there have been three such in the UK. The first (and greatest) was Myra Hindley - the female half of the Moors murderers. With a man named Brady she abducted, tortured and killed a succession of children - burying the bodies on the Yorkshire Moors. The tape of one little girl pleading for her life is the single most harrowing thing I have ever heard.
This woman was reviled in this country above any other person. And far, far more than was Brady.
The second is a woman called Mary Bell. While a child herself she brutally killed an infant. An imporatant legal point in her case concerned whether she could - at her tender age - know she was doing wrong. I seem to recall she was 10 or 11.
But her age did not save her from a depth of public disgust which exceeds any (until recently) other than that reserved for Hindley.
The third case is a current one. An appalling paedophile abducted and killed two young girls. This third women did no more than provide the man - her partner - with an alibi. When he was convicted for the murders she was charged and convicted of perjury. And given an apropriate sentence.
Of course because of the time she had served awaiting trial her date for realease would have occured relatively soon after the trial. And all the sooner because of measures recently introduced aimed at cutting down on our overpopulated prisons. But the public would not have it. the Home Secretary found himself compelled to take a measure through parliament designed to allow him to at least keep her inside for the full period up to the half way mark of her sentence.
And there are numerous people who say they will seek her out as soon as she is released. The tabloid press feed us an endless steam of vitriol about the woman. Meanwhile the actual (male) child murderer just serves his sentence pretty much forgotten.
It is being asked why these particular women have attracted such exaggerated hate. It is easy to suggest that children having been the victims of the crimes plays some part. But whether that is altogether right I don't know.
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Makes a good story for the capitalist media.
quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
To set against this the hanging of a woman not long before we got rid of the death penalty attracted then - and still attracts now - a very great deal of pathos here. And I think that is because for a man's body to be subjected to violent and degrading treatment does not seem out of kilter with the rather aggressive and combative nature of the male. Whereas the same treatment afforded to a woman does not seem at all the same. Something to do with motherhood perhaps. And the particular tenderness that is somehow innate to the female. Anyway I would not be surprised if that particular hanging does not have something to do with the outcone of the succession of free votes in the house of commons that at one time we had here. Some of those who voted against the death penalty were acting on the ouitermost edge of their personal liberality in doing so. The pathos attaching to that particular case could well be the factor which tipped them over.
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If hanging is too violent, why not move to lethal injection like the USA does?
quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
Anyway my answer is no. I hope that men can eventually be teated more gently by criminal justice but until we manage to progress so far let us be glad if we can at least manage to have sufficiently tender feelings so as feel OK about trteating women chivalrously in that context.
I am sure we can find some other way to even things up for men in the equality stakes. An equal height for the heels of our shoes, perhaps, or equality in the wearing of mascara. Or the right to slam doors when cross or to weep at weddings.
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Hey, it's perfectly legal to do all of these things already. Making progress means achieving equality in places where there isn't any yet.
quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
There are plenty of vertile grounds for those who like to ensure that absurdities of all kinds should be exhibited with an attractive meaure of uniformity without looking to decrease such kindness as may be tolerated in the world. |
"With power comes responsibility". The reverse is also true. That is the distinction that separates children from adults.
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blackice
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Canada where else...
Sep 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
. The suggestion has been made to you Blackice to speak to an woman who was abused. Well here ya' go now's your chance. |
Actually I have many times and your situation is not unlike many I have personally helped out of similar situations. Men too for that matter. It is really good to see you got out of it intact, for sure some don't. Men and women. Were your kids witnesses to this abuse? Did he abuse them too? Do they remember?
If you read back a post or two you will see I am active now and in the past with this off topic topic. Especially where kids are involved, and as i said some do find it hard to get out but unlike years ago it is much easier. Here by the way with very few ecceptions the man is always removed for the house in a domestic despute. Lucky for me she was removed, her condition was to calm down then come back the next day. That was the police's suggestion it took but a few hours for her to go at it again. The next day my child and I left.
As with you some of us have gone through some real hel* Nice to see some of us still keep on smileing  Again good job Tiamat you have made a real difference for your kids and you 
Comrade Tassadar you still do not get it do you? You keep pounding this anti woman turd as if it has some merit, give it up  The thread is about crime and punishment and the gender difference's. Does it mean that the people who report on this, many of whom are women, or the people that bring it to your attention are all anti women? That is so lame it borders on stupidity.
Man post's men's issues (Insert light bulb here) he must be woman hater. Man you need meds. Woman post's woman's issues (Insert light bulb here) man she is fighting for equality. Man point's out inequities in the law or otherwise (Insert light Bulb Here) Quit whinning it does not affect me so who cares, or man we have everything else as far as my limited view goes so it can not be that big a deal. Give it up. If any of this happened to you and you sat back and took it, well so be it your choice. Some of us want to make a difference for the next person, our kids, your kids. I am one of them, I act I make a difference. Call it what you will I call it the right thing to do...
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If he doesn't, then he admits some women tell the truth. |
I do not recall saying anything remotely similar to this, in fact I never have. Typical nutbar tossing in lameness when they have nothing constructive or worth while saying. Reread your post's.
Tiamat you should read back a post or two and see how this guy and Imran Siddiqui made light of you and situations such as yours.  both lamers...
They seem to be of the old school where as long as it's a man who gives a cra*
I think the only real trap here is everytime either of those two lamers make a post. All together now one foot in mouth now the other. You two make it look easy...
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Thus, the only solution is to say nothing |
Actually I was flying a kite with my child and doing the park thing, homework, BBQ, hockey with the kids chatting up a storm with the nieghbors, just finished dinner soon to play a game before bath, (No I was just informed we are going bike riding :b pop corn and a movie, like Spy Kids with my Boo you?
So off to the bikes, well bike mine, she has a real cool go cart, a Radio Flyer, air tires sweet machine I hope that solves the lameness post's of where I am and why I am not going to post until she's in bed...Or tomorrow if I pass out with her while reading her a book. Not uncommon
Last edited by blackice on 20-05-2004 at 04:53
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20-05-2004 00:27
and there are how many women here?
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