17-05-2004 20:41									#1
	Misbehaving Women, Chivalry Justice Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Once again, women have proven themselves to be fully the equals of men -- even when it comes to abusing Iraqi prisoners. The commander of the Abu Ghraib prison, Gen. Janis Karpinski, was female. And remember that photo of the naked man lying on the floor with a leash tethered to his neck? The soldier holding the leash was PFC Lynndie England. A few years ago Patricia Pearson wrote When She Was Bad, an exposé about women who commit manslaughter, infanticide, and other high crimes. Pearson’s book reveals the unseemly tactics that accused women use to beat the rap. These women deftly shift the blame to the man, play on stereotypes of female nurturance, or resort to controversial defenses such as Battered Woman Syndrome. Remember Lorena Bobbitt’s defense for the heinous act of castrating her husband? She claimed temporary insanity. Once the feminists convicted John of being a member of the Male Oppressor class, Lorena was allowed to go scot-free. Three years ago, Andrea Yates drowned her five children in their bathtub. The murder was premeditated, single-handed, and ruthless. Yet husband Russell was the epitome of forgiveness and support for his embattled wife. But incredibly, some people blamed Russell for the gruesome crime. One woman wrote in the Houston Chronicle, “If the state of Texas allows Russell Yates to go unpunished for his part in the drowning deaths of his children, it will be a shame”.

Link

So what do you figure should men and women be treated equals in crime and punishment?

	17-05-2004 20:43									#2
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Yep. But your article is FoS. Bobbit was raped and Yates was psychotic.

	17-05-2004 20:53									#3
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Carr will be shot in days

	17-05-2004 20:54									#4
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chegitz guevara The article claimed no different, what the article is about you missed obviously. The article talks abut the crimes, defenses and punishments... So I am at a loss to figure out what your going on about? If you took the time to click on the links you would have seen they go right to the news articles themselves. When there check the details I am sure you will find them very accurate. Bobbit "claimed" to be raped BTW so are you FoS? As far as Yates go more blame keeps being put on Robert not her. So again I think you have missed the point entirely.

So the topic was should women and men be treated as equals in crime and punishment.

	17-05-2004 21:17									#5
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An exception should be made for Canadian misogynists, who should be forced to attend Sisters of Athena (or whatever it is) gatherings for a year. Failure to do so will result result in a forced transgendering.

	17-05-2004 21:21									#6
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The Bun

Blackice is not a mysogynist. Neither he is a sexist. He does have an axe to grind, but that's different.

	17-05-2004 21:49									#7
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Azazel no axe just awareness, people like Theben do not have a clue, voice opinions on baseless assumptions to make themselves macho. Thanks for your comments Azazel it is too obvious people who do know me and read what I post know exactly where I stand.

We can only conlude they vote "no" woman should get less of a sentence for the same crime as men because they are misandrists. What other reason could there be? Men deserve harsher sentences because they are men. This is equality?

It also shows ingnorance to the highest degree to post the comments they do. If they would read and become informed they would not appear to be as ignorant as they do, that being to pro woman groups as well as pro men groups. No group goes for illinformed trash talk such as those two used displayed.

I belong to many groups including femenist's one's, we all have the same thing in common. Bringing awareness to injustice and group bulying of another by either misandrists or misogynists neither of which deserves the time of day.

No if you want to label me call me a pro dad activist. Cuz that is exactly where 99% of my effort goes.

How anyone can read that article and them "claim" the poster is a misogynists is beyond comprehension. Well it does show their ignorance but other than that?

Last edited by blackice on 17-05-2004 at 21:55

	17-05-2004 21:56									#8
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What does the article you linked have anything to do with the poll?

	17-05-2004 22:04									#9
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quote: Originally posted by blackice So I am at a loss to figure out what your going on about?

Conviction and sentencing takes mitigating factors into account. If the jury (and the rest of American for that matter) believed the Loreana Bobbit had been raped and went temporarily insane, then she doesn't deserve prison time.

quote: If you took the time to click on the links you would have seen they go right to the news articles themselves.

I did. The article seems to be long on assertion and short on details.

quote: As far as Yates go more blame keeps being put on Robert not her.

What universe are you in? The one I'm in people were howling for her execution. I know of exactly one person saying her husband was guilty as well, Slowwhand, who seemed to believe that because he didn't want his wife punished because she was psychotic, he must have been in on the murders.

It's true, however, that the husband does bear some of the blame. Yates suffered severe and worsening PPD everytime she had a baby. Yet he continued (with her) to make children, knowing that each pregnancy made her crazier, more depressed, and more psychotic. Had she killed herself in sterad, I would argue he should be tried for 2nd degree murder, because he was engaging in behavior he knew was likely to result in someone's death, Andrea Yates.

The statistics I've seen show that when women murder their husbands, they typically do so for self defense. While it's true women are just as likely to engage in physical abuse, they are far less likely to kill their mates then men are. The number one cause of death among pregnant women is murder.

Until very recently, self-defense wasn't likely to win a woman much sympathy. The women's prisons are filled with women who had abusive husbands but were convicted because the jury and prosecution wondered why they simply couldn't leave.

So I doubt, very highly, that any sentencing disparity is due to misplaced chivalry.

	17-05-2004 22:11									#10
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Urban Ranger ah need more information ok right here:

END THE BIAS

quote: The increased likelihood of doing time isn't all men have to worry about. On average, men receive prison sentences that are 40 percent longer than those of women convicted of the SAME crime, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. One might argue that men's longer prison terms are the result of the severity of their crimes and their longer criminal records. But studies that control for these factors prove otherwise. "Women and men with comparable backgrounds do not receive comparable sentence lengths for felony crimes," write researchers Mathew Zingraff and Randall Thomson in "THE INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF THE SOCIOLOGY OF LAW." "Women are given shorter sentence lengths." Overall, Zingraff and Thomson found that gender contributed more to the determination of sentence length than any other variable they investigated. These findings were confirmed in a recent Los Angeles Times article quoting Department of Justice sources which reported that women convicted of killing their husbands receive an average sentence of only six years, while male spousal killers got 17 years.

chegitz guevara while your assumptions are entertaining you are not quite right on your facts.

	17-05-2004 22:15									#11
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That says nothing about mitigating circumstances in spousal murders.

	17-05-2004 22:15									#12
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I could care less what Blackice says, as it is obvious what he thinks. The article posted has nothing to do with fatherhood, and everything to do with an attack on women in general. I've also read plenty of other crap he's posted here before; this does nothing to change my opinion of his worthless notions. Shame on you, Az, for supporting him.

btw, I voted 'yes' on the poll. Hope that helps your agenda. Not really.

	17-05-2004 22:17									#13
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As far as killing yates no she needs help that is proven, as far as he goes i find it interesting to read his story not the defense media spread sheets.

	17-05-2004 22:19									#14
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Theben attack on women in general? You are a true misandrists yet you vote yes. You need help.

	17-05-2004 22:21									#15
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I still remember a time not to long ago (1988) where the Chicago PD would arrest a battered women for attacking her man's fists with her face.

	17-05-2004 22:24									#16
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chegitz guevara link?

quote: That says nothing about mitigating circumstances in spousal murders.

If they are proven they should be taken into account, but let's face it dead people can not defend themselves.

	17-05-2004 22:26									#17
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Perhaps you should actually read the article.

quote: For example, Patricia Pearson reports that the average prison sentence for a woman convicted of killing her husband is six years. In comparison, a man convicted of wife-killing can expect to do 16 years in the slammer.

Was the only thing noteworthy in the article. The rest was just fluff.
Unfortunately the writer of the article didn't bother with any explanations for this, or supporting links, other than allusions such as, "the unseemly tactics that accused women use", "women deftly shift the blame to the man," "stereotypes of female nurturance", and "controversial defenses such as Battered Woman Syndrome".
Yeah, I can see how that's pro-dad.

	17-05-2004 22:38									#18
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Theben fluff? Now your ignorance is shinning, it only took a few posts, congrats.

I also do not remember calling this a pro dad topic? Anyone else?

But it does relate in fact but that is a conversation for intellegent people, I am affaid your bias and half witted intellegence can not keep up.

Maybe when you actually read some articles and and facts like the one's posted above you will see things differently? Not likely though it would appear any pro men postings will be rap with your inane comments posted with true ignorance of either cause.

	17-05-2004 22:39									#19
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Che, why is your sickle and hammer backwards?

	17-05-2004 22:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by blackice If they are proven they should be taken into account, but let's face it dead people can not defend themselves.

If they are proven, they get the lesser sentence. If they are not proven, they get the bigger sentence.

	17-05-2004 22:45									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Che, why is your sickle and hammer backwards?

Because I'm a Trotskyist. We turned it around to differentiate ourselves from the Stalinist-hijackers.

	17-05-2004 22:55									#22
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quote: If they are proven, they get the lesser sentence. If they are not proven, they get the bigger sentence.

Yes again the dead can not defend themselves...

Then are we to beleive that on the average Department of Justice sources which reported that women convicted of killing their husbands receive an average sentence of only six years, while male spousal killers got 17 years.
Woman have a reason and men do not?

	17-05-2004 23:00									#23
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quote: Originally posted by blackice Theben fluff? Now your ignorance is shinning, it only took a few posts, congrats.

Hmm... at least I can spell correctly, conjugate, and perform correct sentence structure. That alone puts me a few marks above you, it seems.

quote: I also do not remember calling this a pro dad topic? Anyone else?

Someone said something about being a "pro dad activist" and "thats where 99%" his "efforts" went. I guess this is one out of the 100, eh?

quote: But it does relate in fact but that is a conversation for intellegent people, I am affaid your bias and half witted intellegence can not keep up.

Would you like me to tutor you in spelling? I could also help you in other areas re: development of intellect.

quote: Maybe when you actually read some articles and and facts like the one's posted above you will see things differently? Not likely though it would appear any pro men postings will be rap with your inane comments posted with true ignorance of either cause.

Ah, I see, violence by women is pro men. Why didn't I see that before? That must mean that domestic violence by men against women is pro women! Slap that ho for womyn's lib!

	17-05-2004 23:00									#24
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: If they are proven, they get the lesser sentence. If they are not proven, they get the bigger sentence. Yes again the dead can not defend themselves...

No, they have the resources of the state to defend them, and generally far more than any defendant has to fight.

quote: Then are we to beleive that on the average Department of Justice sources which reported that women convicted of killing their husbands receive an average sentence of only six years, while male spousal killers got 17 years. Woman have a reason and men do not?

Yes, women tend to have a better reason for killing their husbands, i.e., self-defense. Men are far more likely to kill their spouses than vice versa. Hence the greater disparity in sentencing.

	17-05-2004 23:09									#25
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Che, this isn't fair. In this day and age of handguns, knives and what not why are men still percieved as the agressors?

Let me recommend you a great music video, with an insight. It's called "Smack my ***** up". Opened my eyes, a lot.

	17-05-2004 23:10									#26
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own goal!

	17-05-2004 23:13									#28
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0-100.

Just watch the video.

	17-05-2004 23:15									#29
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quote: Hmm... at least I can spell correctly, conjugate, and perform correct sentence structure.

wow! Give the man a toy to play with...

quote: Someone said something about being a "pro dad activist"

But your reading skills and retention are poorly lacking. Which I may add does nothing for your arguements. It also shows why you have the opinions you do. If you can not retain information posted and ahem, "claimed" to be read by you what does that say about your information and opinions? Not much. Man you "claim" to have read other information I have posted and have an opinion of me, yet right here a few post's up you can not remember who said what. Amazing, good sentence structure etc. But I think you failed the read and retain course. Your views have little merit now.

quote: I guess this is one out of the 100, eh?

Actually no it is part of it. You have no idea what that part is because you have no idea to begin with, obviously.

quote: Yes, women tend to have a better reason for killing their husbands, i.e., self-defense. Men are far more likely to kill their spouses than vice versa. Hence the greater disparity in sentencing.

In most and all cases it is "alleged" that the man did this, easy defense since the man is dead. Again the dead can not defend themselves. Now on to how do explain the overwhelming disparity with all sentencing, in all crimes?

Azazel I have seen it, do not disapair these two simply like to be uninformed opinionist's. As with this display of ignorance, thinking they scored points without even knowing what your taking about...

	17-05-2004 23:16									#30
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What? Are you still here? Go away, we're playing with Azazel now.