20-05-2004 11:03									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I disagree with this. Many of the people born into poverty are stuck there. It was even worse in the past, but the industrialization and modernization of society along with universal public schooling has helped enlarge the middle class many times over. What about people who are born to a single mom with 5 kids (who doesn't care what they do or what trouble they get into or whether or not they go to school) in a run-down apartment in a bad neighborhood with really crappy schools? For them the opportunity to aspire to the middle class simply doesn't exist. There's no one or reason to motivate them to do well in a failing school. With no money and no prior education the hopes for a middle-class job or college are down the drain.

I was born into poverty, yet I'm not longer dirt poor.

I still don't make a large amount of money, but I have invested wisely and I'm closing in on $100,000 in assets.

It's all a matter of using your brain. Being born poor makes no difference. Although I will grant you that minorities have a tougher time of it.

	20-05-2004 11:07									#92
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Those who think the poor in America are better off than most o the rest of the world have no idea what real American poverty is like. There are parts of the Unites States where people live like they live in the Third World.

bullshit

	20-05-2004 20:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Pax: from the wording of this, can it be assuemd that you did live in the ghetto and you therefore, emerged from it. if so, you are enough proff that people rise out of the ghetto (which isnt real poverty to begin with). you were motivated and succeeded i'm assuming... as for rap music... bah... there is an over-emphasis on drug dealing but not on drug using... thats the difference between rappers and rockers... rappers sell drugs, rockers use them. i'd much rather have someone be a drug dealer than an addict cause at least a dealer is trying to succeed albeit through the wrong means. he has the goal of making money and frankly, selling drugs takes intelligence. I am bothered by some people though. some of the smartest people I know, whom i have intellectual conversations with, play gangster. their playing gets pretty real though as they sell drugs and tote weapons all the time and end up living in shelters. i am sure the gangster culture that a lot of rap promotes has made playing gangster cool. that is bothersome. still, as your own signature shows, there are very popular, non-gangster rappers out there... in the past couple years, the talib kweli/common/jurassic 5/kanye west kind of nerd rapper, if you will, has become extremely popular... and then you got the schizophrenic, 2pac-like gangster rappers like Beanie Sigel and Freeway who bemoan how they hustle from the bottom just to make it to the bottom. but this is all another topic.

I did make it out of the ghetto. I was really poor. No food, hole in my shoes evicted poor. I am living like a true capitalist now.
As far as rap goes, don't under emphasize the effect negative rap music has on Urban Culture. Jay-Z is far more popular at the local high school than Common. Rap music has the power that no other medium has, to set the tone for aculture.Rap music can turn an entire culture of Kings and Queens into niggas and *****es. If you disagree then just ask how many urban youth are feeling like a pimp right about now. How many young girls refer to other young girls as *****es. Sometimes referring to themselves as *****es. Rap is a force that could be used for good but is instead used for commercialism and to promote a negative lifestyle in general.
I would much rather have people neither sell or use the drugs in the first place. Once again, killing themselves. I would also rather have them all put the weapons away.

	20-05-2004 20:36									#94
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The institution of poverty does encourage more poverty. It does encourage people who grow up poor to remain poor.
I say this because being poor for me was like being in a hole in the ground. If know one throws you a rope, tools, or instructions to get out, it's highly likely you will stay there.
The way American Society was set up blacks started out in the ghetto and were not assimilated into society like the Europeans were. We've only had anything close to equality since the 60's. I think we should not dwell on one group achieving equality.
I think we should focus on all groups achieving equality and erasing poverty so discusssions like these with history instead of current events.
To do this, we have to start in the schools. I think we should spend more time exposing kids to different careers and providing more internships and scholarships and less class time. Showing kids a life outside of poverty will give them encouragement to seek it out. The other thing is that the mindset of Corporate America has to continue to change to the point when assumptions are not made about a person based on color and all races are given a fair chance. Corporate America and Government has to take a position that really means no child left behind and support not just say it.
I think then we will have a truly equal and free america.

	20-05-2004 22:04									#95
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quote: I think we should not dwell on one group achieving equality. I think we should focus on all groups achieving equality and erasing poverty so discusssions like these with history instead of current events. To do this, we have to start in the schools. I think we should spend more time exposing kids to different careers and providing more internships and scholarships and less class time. Showing kids a life outside of poverty will give them encouragement to seek it out.

I've not often found myself in agreement with you, so I found this noteworthy. I agree totally. I would add some sort of basic budgeting & finance to the curriculum too. Basic stuff. While I have a degree in History, which I love, frankly I don't see the point of trying to teach someone who and what Alexander the Great was if that person lacks the basic skills required to survive in society.

-Arrian

	20-05-2004 22:06									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident bullshit

Shows what you know.

	21-05-2004 04:28									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I was born into poverty, yet I'm not longer dirt poor. I still don't make a large amount of money, but I have invested wisely and I'm closing in on $100,000 in assets. It's all a matter of using your brain. Being born poor makes no difference. Although I will grant you that minorities have a tougher time of it.

But you have to work harder to simply get to the status quo. If middle-class people worked as hard as poor people who joined the middle class then they would be wealthy instead of middle class.

Using one's brain isn't something common among people from any class in America these days.

	21-05-2004 04:33									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus I'm definitely not poor, but someone once said that most americans are a paycheckn away from being homeless or poor. I think that this is about right.

So? All this means is that most Americans have to work to support themselves.

	21-05-2004 04:35									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Trip - I really hope you realize that Saint Marcus was being sarcastic. What are you doing in OT, anyway? Is this the manifestation of extreme boredom + free time? -Arrian

Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'Poly?

	21-05-2004 04:39									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Trip But you have to work harder to simply get to the status quo. If middle-class people worked as hard as poor people who joined the middle class then they would be wealthy instead of middle class. Using one's brain isn't something common among people from any class in America these days.

Has it ever been?

	21-05-2004 04:48									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Has it ever been?

Of course not.

I just find it odd people expect more of the poor to achieve the status quo than they expect the middle class to all become wealthy. especially when most poor people are conditioned to stay where they are.

	21-05-2004 07:25									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich So? All this means is that most Americans have to work to support themselves.

It means that Americans are on the edge of poverty. One slip and..

	21-05-2004 07:30									#103
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No Pax, that is not what it means.

Arbeit macht Frei.... that's the American way

It is the capitalist way, and to be honest, I agree with it.

	21-05-2004 07:35									#104
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Kucinich was misinterpreting a statement I made. No one else can tell me what I meant.

	21-05-2004 08:02									#105
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But he can tell you what your statement meant, by the words in it. Your intent is irrelevent .

	21-05-2004 09:06									#106
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Many americans are a paycheck away from poverty.
Many americans are a step away from poverty.
That's what it means that what I meant.
It's also not the american way.
The American way would be life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

	21-05-2004 09:11									#107
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And you know what it means, to be a paycheck away from poverty? It means you have to work to support yourself. Whoop-de-do. So now you're complaining that not enough Americans are capitalists?

	21-05-2004 09:15									#108
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Pax, you are really wacked out aren't you? Just about everyone is a paycheck away from poverty. Like Kucinich says... it means you have to work. If you take away a paycheck, obviously you won't have any more money.

It's also the 'American Way' - work for your success.

	21-05-2004 09:46									#109
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it also means that something bad happening

like a car accident

can completely **** up your life

Jon Miller

	21-05-2004 09:57									#110
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Yep... but that will happen in any country you go to. You will never do as well if you can't work in the job you were highly skilled to do.

	21-05-2004 10:15									#111
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Capitalists don't work, they invest money.

Someone's got to do the work, that's why we have this thing called the "working class".

Until we have an overabundance of robotic labor, Capitalism is still ahead of its times.

	21-05-2004 10:19									#112
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or is rooted in the majority of the populace being poor

JM

	21-05-2004 11:06									#113
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Yup, most of the populace is poor...

	21-05-2004 11:09									#114
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relatively what I said is true

if you compare us to some artificial standard (like the 3rd world) what I said is not true

JM

	21-05-2004 11:12									#115
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So you're saying that at least 50% of the population is below the median income?

	21-05-2004 11:15									#116
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quote: I did make it out of the ghetto.

finally another guy here who wasnt born with a silver spoon in his mouth. where you used to run? and where you at now and what do you do?

	21-05-2004 11:18									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller relatively what I said is true if you compare us to some artificial standard (like the 3rd world) what I said is not true JM

75% (or whatever it is) of the world's population is an artificial standard?

	21-05-2004 11:18									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich So you're saying that at least 50% of the population is below the median income?

below average?

yah

your statement about median is crap (by deffinitition 50% are below the median income)

JM

	21-05-2004 11:20									#119
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Dammit, you didn't bite

	21-05-2004 11:24									#120
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Shows what you know.

Have you ever been outside the United States?