21-05-2004 11:25									#121
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: So you're saying that at least 50% of the population is below the median income?

who is kucinich and is he pretending to be stupid?

	21-05-2004 11:26									#122
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Many americans are a paycheck away from poverty. Many americans are a step away from poverty. That's what it means that what I meant. It's also not the american way. The American way would be life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't believe that. Worse comes to worse they have to declare bankruptcy. But they still get to keep their house if they do that. So they aren't exactly in poverty.

	21-05-2004 11:28									#123
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer who is kucinich and is he pretending to be stupid?

Did you not see the post two above yours?

I was trolling

	21-05-2004 11:28									#124
	Inflate your Upload Space

don't forget welfare and unemployment...

	21-05-2004 11:40									#125
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Shows what you know.

No, all it shows is you have no ****ing clue about how bad poverty is in the third world. I've seen slums in the US, and slums in my country and trust me, there's a HUGE difference.

	21-05-2004 11:42									#126
	Remove this text

our poor in america wear Ralph Lauren, Sean John, and Nike...
poor in other countries wear rags...

	21-05-2004 11:46									#127
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

In my city many people cannot afford cars. But that doesn't stop them from carrying cell phones.

I'd like to know how many poor people in other countries carry cell phones.

	21-05-2004 11:52									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Darn pessimists. On the flip side, if an American were able to save a month's paycheck and invest it, they'd be on the road to prosperity.

	21-05-2004 11:53									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'd like to know how many poor people in other countries carry cell phones.

You'd be surprised. The lady who cleans my house once a day each week for only $6 has a cell phone.

	21-05-2004 13:10									#130
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Lets get are terms strait.

Poverty is the lack of "wealth" Cars, houses, clothing and in exteram cases FOOD.

Poor and Rich are relativistic terms, your Poor if you have less money and stuff then most other people. Conversly your Rich if you have lots more.

Depending on if we take a look at the US in isolation or look at the whole world we will get a differnt result for weather the average American is "poor".

Its more meaningfull to ask what kind of WEALTH DISTROBUTION their is in the US. Many people note that their are lots of "Rich" people in 3rd World Countries who live confortable lives comparable to the lives of the Rich people in the US. They often have an amount of raw money that would be only middle class in the US but the Purchasing Power Parity in their country means they get more "stuff" for their level of wealth. Everyone else in the Country though is exteramly poor and in genuine poverty.

The suprising thing is that the US has almost ADSACTLY the same Wealth Distripution as a 3rd world country. A tiny % hold a huge % of all Wealth. The only difference is that in the US EVERYONE has 10 times as much wealth and thus their is little or no poverty among the working class (unemployed people are ofcorse in poverty in any country that has a poor social safty net).

In Europe though their is a much flatter wealth Distributions, this combined with a strong social safty net means that no one is in Poverty or as proportionaly rich or poor. So even with only 2/3 the Per capita GDP europeans on average enjoy a standard of living as good as in the US (and its rising faster as well).

Its clear that the EVEN distribution of wealth is best for society as a whole, Consentraion of wealth leads to conservative idealogies which ultimatly harm the economy and make the majority even more impoverished. Coversly Liberal efforts at wealth redistribution create and sustain a vibrant middle class that can create a powerfull economy that ultimately enriches everyone including the wealth to higher levels of REAL wealth at the expense of lower levels of proportional Richness.

I can only conclude that Conservatives value being Rich over being wealthy, so for example it would be beter to have 10 Dollars and everyone else having 1 then for you to have 100 and everyone else 50.

	21-05-2004 16:47									#131
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Those who think the poor in America are better off than most o the rest of the world have no idea what real American poverty is like. There are parts of the Unites States where people live like they live in the Third World.

Actually it's the people who claims this who have no idea what third world poverty is like.

	21-05-2004 16:48									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Conservatives like to blame the victim.

People like to argue about whether others are victims or not.

	21-05-2004 16:49									#133
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer finally another guy here who wasnt born with a silver spoon in his mouth. where you used to run? and where you at now and what do you do?

Yea Albert, no one from outside the ghetto has ever been anything but wealthy.

	21-05-2004 18:14									#134
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Yea Albert, no one from outside the ghetto has ever been anything but wealthy.

Yep my so called wealthy parents were so affluent they had to rely on begging for milk from local farms and raise their small garden at their rented place in order to feed my brother sister and myself. Many a night the only thing we had was corn on the cob and fresh milk.

OTOH Dad working two jobs and putting himself through school to get a phD in Biology, my mom working nightshift as a nurse, allowed them to Gasp own property buy a small farm and instill in my family the ideals of hard work and the need for good education.

You'll pardon me if I don't necessarily buy the arguement that once poor you and yours will always be poor. Plenty of social mobility exists if people want it.

But I suppose the left would very much like to have them shot now as their reward for making it a go.

	21-05-2004 18:59									#135
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm not saying that it's impossible to improve your circumstances. I'm saying that it's easier to get to $200,000 in the bank if you start with $100,000 than it is to get to $100,000 if you start out with nothing. Anything is possible.
I like the idea mentioned above of flatter wealth distribution. I would rather more people in the lower levels of income increased there earnings before the rich got richer.
The term ghetto was used as a generalization. Of course their are poor people living outside of city projects.
I don't think all poor people have cell phones or big screen tv's. Some may. This represents a misuse of the monies that were available to them. It does not mean that they are not poor. Let's not pretend that there are no poor people in America. Let's also not pretend that we all have the same advantages.
We don't have to feel sorry for poor in America. Just recognize that it is to every Americans benefit to push the poor youth of America out of poverty into productive society. The every man for himself mentality will be one of the downfalls of the U.S.
A prime example is my current situation. I live in an affluent neighborhood that is a few blocks away from a poor neighborhood. Just recently we had a 17 year old kid riding around shooting out windows. He could have easily killed someone. He's in jail now. Luckily, no one died. If someone could have reached out to him before this, there would have been no damage to property and no potential loss of life.
This kid was poor and did not see a reason not to act stupidly. It's up to us as Americans to fix these problems before it gets to this stage. Especially, when the parents are not doing there job.

	21-05-2004 19:15									#136
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Pax, you are really wacked out aren't you? Just about everyone is a paycheck away from poverty. Like Kucinich says... it means you have to work. If you take away a paycheck, obviously you won't have any more money. It's also the 'American Way' - work for your success.

Not everyone is one paycheck away-if you have substantial savings you can survive-if you owe a lot of money then you can't.

	21-05-2004 19:20									#137
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dissident Have you ever been outside the United States?

Yes. Have you ever been through the United States?

	21-05-2004 19:21									#138
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen No, all it shows is you have no ****ing clue about how bad poverty is in the third world. I've seen slums in the US, and slums in my country and trust me, there's a HUGE difference.

Then you haven't been to the right American slums, or driven outside the cities.

	21-05-2004 19:24									#139
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Actually it's the people who claims this who have no idea what third world poverty is like.

No, it just mean you have no idea how bad poverty in the United States gets.

	21-05-2004 19:36									#140
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: The lady who cleans my house once a day each week for only $6 has a cell phone.

Damn. $6 huh. The going rate in big U.S. cities is about 10-20x that.

My housekeeper has one of those luxury SUVs with leather seats!

	21-05-2004 20:01									#141
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: I can only conclude that Conservatives value being Rich over being wealthy, so for example it would be beter to have 10 Dollars and everyone else having 1 then for you to have 100 and everyone else 50.

Really that is the only thing that sums it up.

So you think the conservatives would like be 10 times less wealthy if everyone else is 50 times less wealthy? You really need to get a clue.

	21-05-2004 20:25									#142
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GePap Not everyone is one paycheck away-if you have substantial savings you can survive-if you owe a lot of money then you can't.

I'm not saying that everyone is one step away. I said that a good portion of Americans do mnot have substantial savings and job loss would be devastating.

	21-05-2004 20:31									#143
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus I'm not saying that everyone is one step away. I said that a good portion of Americans do mnot have substantial savings and job loss would be devastating.

I don't even know why anyone disputes this. The majority of Americans are one illness away from bankruptcy. This would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

I don't understand the mentality of America. Yep, we lazy, no good for nothings. If they didn't threaten us with starvation we'd never work. What kind of way is that to think?

	21-05-2004 22:22									#144
	Full PM-box? Change here!

americans work harder than almost every other country

I htink we work aharder than the japanese now

JM

	21-05-2004 22:45									#145
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

jon miller,
i dont understand your leftism. from what you have told me about yourself, you know firsthand that it isnt economics or the capitalist system that is to blame for people being poor but people themselves making stupid decisions such as to have sex and have a baby at 15 or to do drugs. i know you know that if anyone truly cared and truly applied themselves, they will succeed in this country. why would you work hard if this wasn't true?

	21-05-2004 22:45									#146
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think the amount worked is about equal among anglophone countries, with the UK and Ireland at the lower end of the anglophone scale. Americans work about the same amount as the Japanese, Canadians and Australians. The Europeans (ex-UK & Ireland) work a lot less.

Koreans outwork us all by a wide margin, since they just moved from a 6-day workweek to a 5-day workweek on some jobs. South Korea has a 4% poverty rate, even though they don't have much of a social safety net.

Last edited by DanS on 21-05-2004 at 22:58

	21-05-2004 22:58									#147
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

With regard to the distribution of income and poverty, I don't think they can be linked so easily as some in this thread have. There are some countries with extremely high poverty rates with relatively level income distribution.

A lot of former communist countries fall into this category. For instance, about 50% of Romanians are in poverty, but income in Romania is spread relatively evenly.

Further, some of the former communist countries have done well and have even distribution of income like the Czech Republic, while others have done well with an uneven distribution of income like Estonia.

Last edited by DanS on 21-05-2004 at 23:05

	21-05-2004 23:02									#148
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

DanS:

And i believe some just plain poor countries (sub-saharan africa, central america, caribbean) also have pretty level wealth distribution but everyone is poor.

	21-05-2004 23:05									#149
	Put an end to popups!

Yes. For instance, Rwanda has a fairly even distribution of income. Bangladesh does too.

	21-05-2004 23:11									#150
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Smiley Darn pessimists. On the flip side, if an American were able to save a month's paycheck and invest it, they'd be on the road to prosperity.

That's why you put aside some from each check. Very few can't afford to put some money in savings.