23-05-2004 07:49									#91
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Or mafias could know each other and they can win together in the end. And the secret ballot is a good idea, as long as people still can discuss and share their thought so that the secret votes are not entirely random.

good ideas. As noted, it would allow a cloak-and-dagger aspect to the game In addition, however, the GM could also drop hints as to how people might have voted (since the GM could act sort of like the detective-god [or so I have inferred]).

Therefore, people's own accounts... the accounts they PM to others... and the GM's could be different- and all could be lies!

--
Also, why wouldn't the mafia's know each other, it would only make sense? (At least in some cases) then they could work in concert... or secretly backstab each other

	23-05-2004 13:24									#92
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I like those ideas also

	23-05-2004 15:58									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If the mafia do know each other, then backstabbing each other would be stupid...

2 Mafia, A & B. A kills B in the night. B finds out, and posts "I was the mafia, and A that little schemeing ***** is the other mafia. I suggest you pile him now then you can win."

	23-05-2004 16:03									#94
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

If you know who the mafia is, you are forbidden from posting in the thread. And if someone decided to break that rule by naming the other mafia, what do you reckon the chances of them being allowed to play again are?

	23-05-2004 16:04									#95
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Under the table PM'ing would still be a problem though. The mafias should not be aware of one another.

	23-05-2004 16:06									#96
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

... or they should just not be able to kill each other...

	23-05-2004 16:28									#97
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

But that still leaves the under-table PMing where they could reveal the other mafia. One counter would be mafia surviving gets n points, but if both mafia survive they get n+ points so it is in their best interest to keep each other alive. Or we could just keep them not knowing who the other is.

	23-05-2004 16:54									#98
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The "secret ballot" thing sounds like fun but I don't think the mafia should be able to know each other. Perhaps try that in one game but I think it is interesting to have one mafia "accidentally" kill off the other. That way the mafioso could try to follow the clues that the rest of the people are trying to compile to win thereselves more points (if there is going to be a point system).

	24-05-2004 03:51									#99
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: 2 Mafia, A & B. A kills B in the night. B finds out, and posts "I was the mafia, and A that little schemeing ***** is the other mafia. I suggest you pile him now then you can win."

Well, they shouldn't be allowed to post that since they're dead.

Frankly, I don't see why people are allowed to announce if they are the mafia and they die- in reality, no one would know... I would suggest taht if indeed the 2nd mafia were killed, that the first one gets the power to kill more people to make up for the 2nd's absence

	24-05-2004 03:54									#100
	Increase the size of your Attachments

He does.

The kills are alternated. One mafioso kills in the odd rounds, the other in the even rounds.
If A is killed R4, then B gets to kill in all the remaining rounds until he is caught.

	25-05-2004 02:18									#101
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I would suggest taht if indeed the 2nd mafia were killed, that the first one gets the power to kill more people to make up for the 2nd's absence

You are not saying that he could kill 2 people per night are you?

And I agree that there is secruity risks of information leaks if mafias know about each other.

	25-05-2004 06:25									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Actually, now that I know the game better- I would say that the remaining mafia would kill every night rather than just on the odd/even ones so that no one would know that anything is awry

Thus, three people could be left, and 2 could be the mafia (It hurts your mind just thinking of it!)

	25-05-2004 08:27									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

is MAD possible in Mafia?

	25-05-2004 08:43									#104
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

as long as no DLs allowed in the game, !!!!!!


and umm did someone mention spam in a certain thread, nahh wouldnt be jamski !!!!!

Last edited by Rasputin on 25-05-2004 at 09:12

	25-05-2004 08:54									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

SPMA?

	26-05-2004 03:59									#106
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

OK, here's a recapitulation of the main ideas posted. If anyone thinks that I missed something vital, please mention it.

Main Idea
To support the growth of the Mafia game and to relieve the original Mafia game, a spin-off will be introduced. For convenience and distinction, this spin-off will be named "Gangsters".

Gameplay
Gangsters will use the basic formula of Mafia, but will also be an experimental ground for the original Mafia game.

ISSUE 1) Player admission:
A) Separate games for veterans and new players
B) Free-for-all
C) Other

ISSUE 2) Storyline:
A) Same/similar to Mafia
B) Different
C) Flexible (GM's call)

ISSUE 3) Coordination with the Mafia game:
A) Run Gangsters "simultaneously" with Mafia
B) Allow different run-times by having "dead" players cross over

ISSUE 4) Gangsters' identities:
A) Appointed gangsters know of each other that they are the gangsters
B) Appointed gangsters DO NOT know of each other that they are the gangsters


Rules
- A player may not simultaneously play Mafia and Gangsters.

ISSUE 5) Turn structure:
A) Mafia-style (24 hours; flexible weekend)
B) 48 hours
C) Other

ISSUE 6) Killing style:
A) If there is only one Gangster, then s/he must leave some kind of clue as a signature
B) No/Other

ISSUE 7) Voting procedure:
A) Same as Mafia
B) Closed ballot


Discussion
OK, if this are all the issues that we need to discuss, then we can discuss/vote for them now.

Personally, these are my preferences:
1) B: a free-for-all structure will give the player pools a nice shuffle.
2) C: I believe that a GM must do what s/he feels comfortable with, so should not be forced to (not) follow a certain storyline.
3) B: again this is to keep the player pool different, and keep the games continuous.
4) B: the accidental killing is part of the fun-factor IMO, and others have given good arguments against it in this thread.
5) A: 24H should be enough, there won't be any punitive measures if you miss a round (now and then) anyway.
6) B: I think this should be consideration the GM and the Gangster can make together.
7) B: yes, this is the perfect opportunity to test this.

[I added an elaboration for my choices.]

Last edited by Zopperoni on 26-05-2004 at 04:16

	26-05-2004 04:06									#107
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks Zopperoni.

Now that I'm dead in the other game, I vote we start now.

1) B (but people who could not get into the A game get first dibs)
2) C
3) B
4) A (but we need some way to prevent/limit betrayal)
5) A
6) B
7) B (I like open ballots, but let's give secret balloting a try)

edit: I changed my vote on #2 because of the new option.

Last edited by joncha on 26-05-2004 at 05:42

	26-05-2004 04:10									#108
	Got spare money?

1) B
2) B
3) B
4) B
5) A
6) A
7) A

-Jam

	26-05-2004 04:13									#109
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Definitly different storylines, but with room for crossovers!!!

	26-05-2004 04:15									#110
	Put an end to popups!

I added a C-option to ISSUE 2) and elaborated on my choices.

	26-05-2004 04:44									#111
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1) B
2) C
3) B
4) A (The accidental killing of the other is fun, but knowing the other will give the gangster's a better chance of winning)
5) A
6) B
7) B (open ballot is fun, trying to save yourself if there is a pile in progress, but a closed ballot will make an interesting change to the process)
7)

	26-05-2004 05:27									#112
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

1)B
2)C - I agree with the idea that this game would be a good way to try out different things. If it doesn't work, then it won't mess up anything with the original game.
3)B
4)B
5)A
6)A
7)B

	26-05-2004 05:36									#113
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

1) B
2) C
3) B
4) B
5) A
6) A
7) B (May as well try different rules)

	26-05-2004 05:57									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

1) B
2) C
3) B
4) B
5) A
6) A
7) I prefer A, but maybe we should try B just to see how it goes.

	26-05-2004 07:42									#115
	Suffering from ads?

1. B
2. C
3. A
4. B
5. A
6. B
7. B

	26-05-2004 07:44									#116
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

1. B
2. C
3. B
4. B
5. A
6. A
7. B

	26-05-2004 11:11									#117
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

1.B
2.C
3.B
4.B
5.A
6.A
7.B

Last edited by Trokair on 26-05-2004 at 11:39

	26-05-2004 11:27									#118
	Increase Your PM Length

B minus?

	26-05-2004 13:23									#119
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

1. B
2. C
3. B
4. B
5. A
6. B - Leave it to the GM and the Gangster to decide.
7. B

	26-05-2004 14:37									#120
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Current vote tally

ISSUE 1) Player admission:
A) Separate games for veterans and new players - [0]
B) Free-for-all - [11]
C) Other - [0]

ISSUE 2) Storyline:
A) Same/similar to Mafia - [0]
B) Different - [2]
C) Flexible (GM's call) - [10]

ISSUE 3) Coordination with the Mafia game:
A) Run Gangsters "simultaneously" with Mafia - [1]
B) Allow different run-times by having "dead" players cross over - [11]

ISSUE 4) Gangsters' identities:
A) Appointed gangsters know of each other that they are the gangsters - [2]
B) Appointed gangsters DO NOT know of each other that they are the gangsters - [9]

ISSUE 5) Turn structure:
A) Mafia-style (24 hours; flexible weekend) - [11]
B) 48 hours - [0]
C) Other - [0]

ISSUE 6) Killing style:
A) If there is only one Gangster, then s/he must leave some kind of clue as a signature - [6]
B) No/Other - [5]

ISSUE 7) Voting procedure:
A) Same as Mafia - [1]
B) Closed ballot - [10]



So far, the direction is clear for all issues except ISSUE 6)