24-05-2004 13:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President Unfortunately, the disparate military strengths were based on the fact that the Hive was always rated as having the largest arms manufacturing sector, &c. For the record, I might have been tempted to take Frankychan's side, 'cause he's just an all-round nice guy. But then I joined the League of Armed Neutrality, and Centralis and Noosland which are neighbors and past allies of Karakas jumped in against him, and then it would have been awkward to find a reason and a way in . . .

Seems to me some Azani Terrorist elements could have struck your homeland forcing you onto the other side. Giving some very interesting rp oppertunities as you find yourself opposing your traditional allies. My point with that is that its rp, one could come up with an excuse to oppose santa claus if you wanted to.

Now I understand the Hive is the biggest, that makes sense. They have the population and the ranking. But why are they 10-1 big? That doesnt neccisarily follow, especially if you want to continue to have fun and interesting rp possiblilities.

Please dont think me terribly rude for hopping in here with all my questions. To be honest I dont even know what an FCL is But there seem to be some fundimental flaws that are getting in the way of you guys rping anything of a military nature and Im trying to understand them.

	24-05-2004 13:50									#32
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Ah, it's all good. There are no dumb questions for the sake of gaining knowledge.

FCL-shortened version of FrankyChanLand.

Well, it's like this. FCL attacked Azan (which was a smaller nation). Then Guardinia and Ceroo jumped in. Hive jumped in, then other nations jumped in. It was like one big dogpile with everyone jumping in. The probabilities aren't that messed up. They aren't necessarily 10-1, but how things ended up make it seem that way.

	24-05-2004 13:59									#33
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I posted this in the OOC thread for Azazel when he joined the roleplay. I thought it might be helpful, xiaodave.

quote: Originally posted by joncha Here's the links to all the other FCL/Azan threads: "A Tyrant Arises" Former Azan FCL/Azan roleplay ...and I almost forgot this one: game mechanics for Azan

	24-05-2004 13:59									#34
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Good ideas.

I support option #1 and a turn structure.

	24-05-2004 14:03									#35
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Alright fair enough, makes sense.

Leaves me with two questions.

Just so I know, the Hive is the biggie. But how big militarily is it compared to the military of say the average size of one of the other 10? Whichever one is say middle of the pack out of the others.

Two, rather than slow down the fun by having 10 against 1 now that the Hive has pulled out. Why not come up with an rp excuse to even up the sides a little player wise? It seems that you could roleplay a split between the defending forces, leaving FCL as a wildcard playing one against the other. This may not make immediate rp sense but it will let you very shortly return to a full out rpfest that filled 500 posts on the last thread and it wont put all of the pressure on one person to hold up one side of the whole struggle.

	24-05-2004 14:13									#36
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Well, Ras can always go crazy and switch sides again... though he had taken some serious losses.

Some alliance countries may consider attacking FCL itself to overthrow General Franky Chan, while the others could say, "Heck no, we are just here kicking out the FCL forces from Azan, nothing more." So they may drop out, or even turn around and help FCL to defend (though I doubt it )

	24-05-2004 14:16									#37
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That is a pretty damn good idea!

I could actually evolve something like this in my postings!

Holy crap! Give xiaodave a cold drink, cause he's on fire.

	24-05-2004 14:16									#38
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1. Let's just say that little item is a point of contention.

2. from a balance point of view, what you're saying makes perfect sense. The problem is, it just doesn't fit the character of (most of) the nations we're roleplaying. Auldoninna's already switched sides once, so it's possible, but the others that might are either too far away or too vulnerable to counter-attacks.

[edit: x-posted answer to xiaodave's questions]

	24-05-2004 14:19									#39
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True, the other nations would have a harder time because it wouldn't fit their character, FCL is a slightly more...erm....."flexible" in terms of it's reputation

But the Hive and Frankychanland are forever allies! I could probably work on this, but it would be interesting to try and develop a plot twist like that....*scratches chin*

	24-05-2004 14:31									#40
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One last idea would be, with Laz's permission, to turn over RP of Hive to Franky Chan temporarily, until this issue is resolved. Of course, we need to put a limitation on how big a force could Franky use, etc.

	24-05-2004 14:35									#41
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quote: Originally posted by joncha 1. Let's just say that little item is a point of contention. 2. from a balance point of view, what you're saying makes perfect sense. The problem is, it just doesn't fit the character of (most of) the nations we're roleplaying. Auldoninna's already switched sides once, so it's possible, but the others that might are either too far away or too vulnerable to counter-attacks. [edit: x-posted answer to xiaodave's questions]

1. Hahaha. I can imagine, having read some of the military size threads. I just figured it might have been solved before the war. Ive been designing games for fun since I was small, if you want I could come up with a way to abstract military size that would take into consideration rp issues such as country size and economic strength as well as game balance, allowing everyone who wants to to take the field in some form.

2. From my perspective, and hence my arguement becomes: Instead of using this discussion to set rules (the turns rule might be something worth adopting whatever the form of the rest of the rp) to continue the struggle as is. Perhaps you could use it to brainstorm a way to have a schizm in the defending side of this fight make sense. It seems to me that it wouldnt take more than three of you to switch to the FCL side / or to form a third side in the struggle to make it all the more fun for everyone involved.

Having just one person on the other side is potentially rp-killingly troublematic. Memorial day weekend is coming up here in america, I dont know where FCL lives but two-three days away from his computer could drag everything to a permanent stop. This is all Im saying, I think you will all have more fun if you find a way to make it 7-4 or 7-3-1 or 4-3-5-2, etc.

	24-05-2004 14:46									#42
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Wow this thread got me to chieftan.

	24-05-2004 14:53									#43
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Nice.

	24-05-2004 14:59									#44
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Alright, long past my bedtime here, but let me leave you all with a suggestion:

FCL, having lost its staunch ally realizes the opposing force set against it will lead to its certain defeat. So, by a combination of subterfuge and black ops it manages to convince 2-3 of the allied nations that theyve been attacked by some/all of the others or vice versa. What you have then is an rp within an rp. You get to rp sudden mistrust between the allies while they try to piece together what really happened. FCL of course takes advantage of the situation for some short term gains.

What this gets you game wise is a chance to rp, a potential explanation for having some countries switch sides and/or kill some time in the hope that the Hive will return and you can get back to the rp you had started.

	24-05-2004 16:14									#45
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quote: Originally posted by xiaodave FCL, having lost its staunch ally realizes the opposing force set against it will lead to its certain defeat. So, by a combination of subterfuge and black ops it manages to convince 2-3 of the allied nations that theyve been attacked by some/all of the others or vice versa. What you have then is an rp within an rp. You get to rp sudden mistrust between the allies while they try to piece together what really happened. FCL of course takes advantage of the situation for some short term gains.

Machiavellian!

I hope you hang around!

	24-05-2004 16:21									#46
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i like the idea of turns with a time limit of say 48 hours per turn,,,

24 hours more fun , but 48 gives real life a chance too

And this aint over yet....


if you all remember Auldonina joined this war as it was attacked by terrorists which came from Azan, then some of our ships were sunk and a sub too. We discoevered via interogation this was FCL forces. once we had eradicated the azan terrorists and liberated the Free Azan people we needed to get our revenge on FCL. The hive then attacked us so we got revenge on them.

The government of Auldonina are not finished with FCL YET !!!!!


Whilst this wont please everyone, (most hate my nation already ) this will keep the sitaution open and hoepfully fun..

The 2nd issue here is we need to find out who planted those bombs in FCL and dela with them (yes i know we know OOC who did it, but IC we dont yet )

	24-05-2004 16:47									#47
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I think Squeblish Nef? will put you on ice!

But we definitely should figure out what's happening next. I like very much the idea of having the coalition break up.

	24-05-2004 17:52									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. President I think Squeblish Nef? will put you on ice!

Quoi? What iz zis... 'ow you say... on aisse?
What are your... your meanings?

Nah, if it comes to a split within the agressors, then I cannot guarantee Al Mastif's continued involvement in the ongoing conflict.

Well, not officially...

	24-05-2004 18:01									#49
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Just as a note: if FCL really needs some reinforcements, then PAtagon could provide some (lastI checked it was ranked around 300 in the world for per capita miltiary spending). However, as it's lcoated in another region, it would have to be a fairly limtied deployment. Also, the troops would be under Franky's control - I don't particularly feel like RPing both sides of a war at once.

	24-05-2004 18:25									#50
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Studied for the economics SAC, GT?

	24-05-2004 20:55									#51
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IF there is to be a split between ADU and the League/Auldoninna...
I'm sure the League could be slightly upset at Ceroo's deal with Azan to set up a base/trading post on the western egde of Azan in return for help in rebuilding Azan post-war.

Or, Ceroo and Guardinia did effectively say to FCL "be good or we're gonna get you" pre-war. What's to say once/if Azan is liberated Ceroo won't want to continue all the way to Ali'i City to topple the oppressive regime?

Point of post: if there is going to be a split, lets wait until there's reason enough to begin making cracks- not say there must be one- besides it's highly unlikely that there would be an out-and-out war between ADU and the League or any of their nations...

	24-05-2004 23:20									#52
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Yeah. But FCL doesn't need allies! Any more missile attacks against us will be met in turn! Meet us on the field of battle where we can crush you all!!!!

The fiasco at Roshem isn't an indication of FCL military might.

	24-05-2004 23:39									#53
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quote: Originally posted by ceroomaster Point of post: if there is going to be a split, lets wait until there's reason enough to begin making cracks- not say there must be one- besides it's highly unlikely that there would be an out-and-out war between ADU and the League or any of their nations...

Let's not force a split for balance sake. If it happens, it should arise naturally from the roleplay.

The problem is, I just don't see how we can do it and remain consistent in character.

Karakas might switch sides, but that would be putting their own neck on the line for nothing. Auldoninna could have another one of it's patented change of heart (they see terrorists everywhere, afterall), but there's too much bad blood between Auldoninna and FCL. A march to Ali'i City might split the allies, but that would only really mean Basus and Jonchastan on the sidelines. Karakas would have no moral objection to it, and Azan might go along with the ADU to get revenge.

I think any conflicts that happen in the region should not be just for conflict's sake. We should roleplay our nations in character, and if conflict arises, deal with it in character.

	25-05-2004 03:16									#54
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i agree joncha, lets continue with the role play then .... i have lots to psot about....

	25-05-2004 10:00									#55
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just one tihng, if someone makes one post surely that is the end turn we waiting for... i cant see why we the nhave t owait till they post multiple times, especialy if we talking many hours or even days later.... w must get an agreed time not only on how long between turns, but also how long t owiat to see if someone is finished after their first post or do we wait longer for another post ...

	25-05-2004 10:05									#56
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Because, as Frankychan pointed out, it's 9 against one. He should be given plenty of time to post all his actions. Until he says he's done, he's not done. Period.

For the rest of us, it doesn't matter who posts when, so our turn is a group turn. When we're all finished (or after our 48 hours is up) it's Frankychan's turn again.

So, for the thousandth time, be patient man!

	25-05-2004 10:07									#57
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hmmmmmm.. need action somewhere else.....


looks aorund the world to see where !!!!!

	25-05-2004 10:57									#58
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Because, as Frankychan pointed out, it's 9 against one. He should be given plenty of time to post all his actions. Until he says he's done, he's not done. Period. For the rest of us, it doesn't matter who posts when, so our turn is a group turn. When we're all finished (or after our 48 hours is up) it's Frankychan's turn again. So, for the thousandth time, be patient man!

Thanks man!

	25-05-2004 11:42									#59
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Going back to the map, it looks like the Coalition has gained more than 50% of Azan.

Should I turn over Azan to Azazel?

	25-05-2004 11:52									#60
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Do you mean the one on Nationstates?

He's created his own "New Azan," so I'm not sure if he wants to run "Former Azan" too.

In any case, I'd say the coalition only holds about 1/3 of Azan, not 50%