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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:36
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quote:
In the case of rape, yes, the woman did not consent to have the child. But neither does the child consent to his mother. The child is not responsible for the rape, and has nowhere else to go, but inside the womb of his mother. Afterwards, if the woman wants to give up her child for adoption, she should, but until then, we should help the woman however we can. |
Well, it is obvious we differ in opinion where life begins. My mother always told me that, though she had a miscarraige, her belife in God led to her beliving that it was my soul, but I was not ready to enter this world. Therefore, I do not believe that any soul truly enters the word until coming out of the womb.
Are you going to tell me that my mother's belife, along with her faith in the Almighty, is wrong? Don't you think that God knows which babies are to be born, and will save each baby until the time is right?
If not...then what is a miscarraige?
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:36
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quote:
So then why do we kill when we are unsure of whether we have a person or not. |
I don't. Other people do not hold my same opinion though, they have different criteria, or different estimates on possibility.
You have a problem differentiating between opinion and truth. My opinion may very well be the truth, but it also may not. Judging people's actions based on my opinion is foolish, which is why I am not supreme dictator of the universe.
The fact is we do not know exactly when consciousness begins, or even how it works. I'm just honest with myself and say I don't know.
I still have an opinion, my 'best guess' as it were. My opinion will drive my actions. I'm not foolish enough to think that my opinion will (or even should) drive other's. They have their own best guess, and in cases where there is no absolute answer, the law should represent a consensus if it can be reached, or a compromise if it can't.
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It's not enough to be uncertain when we are dealing with a matter of life or death, when our actions may result in the death of another person. |
We don't have all the answers. Pretending that we do doesn't help, it just keeps us from doing what's necessary to find the actual answers.
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If you are uncertain, I appreciate your honesty. But I think you can do better than this uncertainty, which is why I make the case that I do. |
I don't mind you stating your opinion, but you consistantly disregard something I say to make an argument that doesn't apply or even agrees with something you just cut out of the quote. The only reason I converse with you is because you amaze me at how dishonest your quoting and rebuttal methods are. It's quite interesting.
If you want to convince me about what point abortion should be made illegal, I've already stated my criteria. The point of consciousness.
To know when that happens, I first need an explaination of how consciousness works. It should be testable, reproduceable, and applicable to creating sentient AI to show that it works.
Until that point, my uncertainty on when consciousness begins will remain as uncertainty.
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:36
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quote:
All I seem to get, is that consciousness ought to be the standard, but when pressed, you waffle to something that sounds better. You say that one can detect brain waves at 8 weeks, and then I ask if that is not proof of consciousness, then what counts? |
I can't be held responsible for your your lack of reading comprehension.
I said I think consciousness should be the standard. Please quote where I have 'waffled' and said it shouldn't.
I said I don't know when consciousness occurs. Please quote where I have 'waffled' and said I do.
I said brain waves are detectable at 8 weeks. Please quote where I have 'waffled' and said they are not.
As for what I feel constitutes proof of consciousness, see my last post where I outlined it. If you want to argue about what constitutes proof, feel free.
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Sure, you don't want to say that any abortions should be banned before the third trimester because of the possibility that the child may not have consciousness. |
Again, I haven't said that. My statements about the law are that it should reflect consensus or compromise between the varying opinions on the subject. In cases such as this where there is so much uncertainty, the law should draw the line where those factors are best represented. I don't know where that is either, as I haven't been polling on the subject.
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But that's looking at things backwards. Is it not more correct to say that we should not kill a child because he or she may have consciousness after all?
That's the only point I've been trying to make for some time, but I'm unsure as to why you think I'm trying to trap you. |
I don't think you are trying to trap me. Please quote where I have said that I do. I have said you are misquoting me. You continue to do it.
And your attempt to make that point is inane, as it is what you are disagreeing with in the first place.
Here is my opinion on the matter once again:
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When dealing with a human life, I think you have to err on the side of caution. |
Last edited by Aeson on 26-05-2004 at 13:31
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Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
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26-05-2004 12:09
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