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After reading the mutual mud-throwing, insults and mild flaming conducted by Alexander's Horse and Lancer in the threadThings I'd Like Just Once--- Keep It Clean) in the OT, could someone explain to me why only one of the contestants was restricted?
Sure, MarkG contented that AH was flaming, and that he continued bringing it to the thread after they were advised to battle it out via PMs. But am I the only one who fail to see what AH did that Lancer didn't?
This seems like a very "political" decision by MarkG, and quite frankly, I'm appalled at it. Can't remember having seen this kind of biased judging anywhere at Apolyton before.
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Legman,
let me make it clear to you:
- they were asked to stop and take it to pm
- lancer stopped and messaged ah
- ah responded in public, quoting part of the private message
given that ah started and did most of the flaming in the first place, i fail to see how this is not fair...
Michaell, feel free to start a (real) charity project like the one by Lancer and see how we will deal with it 
btw, lancer has been making "non-apolyton-endorsed" threads for some time now, it's not something new...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited December 06, 2000).]</font>
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MarkG,
You say that AH responded in public, quoting part of the private message.
So this is your reasoning behind restricting him for one week? Wouldn't it have been wiser to think about whether your own sympathies on the underlying issue had anything to do with it?
You say that given that AH started and did most of the flaming, you fail to see how this is not fair.
Well let me just say that upon reading the thread, my conception is that AH started by bringing up a valid point (sticky threads), and as the race got going, Lancer was the one to say that he'd like to meet AH in order to punch his face in.
Given this - and the fact that they were equally succesful in insulting each other throughout the thread - I fail to see how this is not unfair...
I say turn back now, reinstate AH's posting rights and avoid further damage to the good name of Apolyton Justice.
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well my conception is different...
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-06-2000 06:13 AM</font>
well my conception is different...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Then why don't you ban me as well, since I don't agree with your conception MarkG?
It'd be nice if you could back up your decision a little more instead of just stating your conception is different...
Fairness should be your foremost concern when resorting to restrictions. And this wasn't fair MarkG.
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having a different conception is not against the rules legman
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-06-2000 07:03 AM</font>
having a different conception is not against the rules legman
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Well it appears to have been in the case of AH's conception of the whole Karen Mills thing.
That's what I'm complaining about - that you restricted him because you didn't like his views on the underlying issue.
Ban Lancer too or bring AH back. Either one of these options would be fair, but not the one you chose.
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Oh this is fun.
At least it would be if it wasn't so tragic.
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btw, "mega" is smaller than "giga".... 
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Legman on 12-06-2000 07:13 AM</font>
That's what I'm complaining about - that you restricted him because you didn't like his views on the underlying issue.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>that is your opinion. are you sure it is an unbiased one? if it is not, would it be fair for me to change the decision just to be nice towards you?
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Oh this is fun.
At least it would be if it wasn't so tragic.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>not being able to post in an internet forum is far from tragic...
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-06-2000 08:15 AM</font>
that is your opinion. are you sure it is an unbiased one? if it is not, would it be fair for me to change the decision just to be nice towards you?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
I'm sorry to say I'm quite confident it's the truth. This decision of yours to ban AH and not Lancer when one wasn't any worse than the other reeks of bias, misunderstood political correctness and petty subjective judging.
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>not being able to post in an internet forum is far from tragic...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Agreed. The tragic part is your lack of ability to recognize that this is an issue of fairness on your part - and not something to try to deflect by attempting to get into a debate about smilies and the difference between mega and giga.
Now are you going to act like a man or a mouse on this?
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a line was drawn, one passed it....
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 12-06-2000 08:51 AM</font>
a line was drawn, one passed it....
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Wrong, MarkG. They both posted after you and Ming told them to take it to PMs.
Do the right thing. Nullify AH's restriction and let us keep the good impression we've had of Apolyton Justice up till now.
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Hello, operator?
What do other people think about this carrying out of Apolyton Justice? Anyone who witnessed the insults evolve in the thread in question? Ming?
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Lefty Scaevola,
Sure, the Horse will be able to shrug it off.
But the implications for further incidents where a poster (you?, me?) is in disagreement with an admin on a highly contested issue such as the Karen Mills charity enterprise is troubling to say the least. 
That's why I'd like for MarkG to either substantiate his decision of banning AH only and leaving Lancer in peace - or, preferably, reinstate the posting rights of AH and admit that it was a biased judgement in the heat of the moment.
Anyway, I'll be away for the next hour or two (have to get home from work and such), but please keep the comments flowing. I'd hate to think we've heard the last of this, as it is quite clearly the most evident wrongdoing by an admin I've seen in my time here. And I'm no bigger fan of AH than the next guy. This is a matter of principle, and an important one at that.
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Ming
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First... all "moderating" is a judgement call.
And it is to be expected that there will always be a difference of opinions between people.
Looking at the thread, I can see MarkG's point of view on this.
First, They were told to chill. Lancer did respond right after continuing the war... BUT, the post shows as one minute after mine, which means he hadn't see it.
Can't nail somebody for that. When he saw it after his post, he responded a few minutes later that he understood. no foul here!
Second, they were politely told to take it to PM.
Again, obviously from the edit to AH's post, he just saw the chill and PM request... so no foul on that post either.
The problem (I'm guessing because I can't read MarkG's mind) is the Post made by AH which Quotes Lancer from his PM. It just ignited the flame war again. I'm also assuming that Lancers response to the problem post wasn't seen as more gas on the fire, because it was not really a flame, but an explaination and think about it post. It was an attempt to end it... not continue it!
One might argue that Lancer's post right before the problem post "PM sent, no real man could stomach it." was flaming, or a notice that a PM was sent. A borderline or judgement call.
I think if Lancer had continued the war in that thread, he too would have been restricted.
So again, a matter of opinion, and not a miscarrage of justice! (Which is a tad extreme considering we are just talking about a week restriction on an internet forum)
You, or any member of Apolyton, are welcome to your opinions. But Moderating these forums is under the control of the Admins and Mods.
------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net
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06-12-2000 15:18
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