01-06-2004 05:20									#1
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To start this thread off the right way, I've just finished making some maps of the final look of our empire once we get up to max potential. The abbreviations on the tiles are for which city will be using which tile. These maps can will also be used for determining which of the remaining tiles need to be fully developed as opposed to just needing rails.

The North



The South

	01-06-2004 05:25									#2
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Reprint from the former turn-thread

- Finish research on communism and start on sanitation
- Set slider to 100% science.
- Send communism-accepted to Lego.
- Send communism-accepted to ND.
- Phoenix completes artillery. Start artillery
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 move to mountain at Phoenix 7 and rail
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 mine mountain
- VW#s 11&12 move to desert at Panama Vox 9 and rail
- VW#13 irrigates desert
- VW#14 moves to desert at Eternity 9 and irrigates
- VW#15 irrigates oil desert
- VW#16 moves to desert at Panama Vox 8 and irrigates
- WF in desert at Panama Vox moves to oil.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 03-06-2004 at 00:27

	01-06-2004 05:39									#3
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wow impressive work rothaerill

	01-06-2004 05:59									#4
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Thanks. I had actually worked this out a few weeks ago, but I hadn't put it into a concrete picture yet. Now everyone will know which mountains will be getting mines and why.

Basically we'll have New Voice and Resurrection at size 8, Irony at size 10, Memory at size 11, and the others at size 12. Hope will be the last to get there since it is the breadbasket of growth for the non-growth cities with it's 2 turn workers.

Also, if we so desire, Panama Vox and Eternity can each grow to size 16 and Hope to size 19.

	01-06-2004 08:34									#5
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nice job

I was wondering about when it would be time for a new thread

jM

	06-06-2004 19:06									#6
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Rhoth - it is a thing of beauty.

Hats off to you for the phenomenal job you have done rebuilding and running this economy.

	07-06-2004 03:32									#7
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Turn played per orders. ND sent the 100 gold, and Lego sent two more workers.

We finished communism and sent it off, and started sanitation which we'll have in 7 turns at full research.

No screenshot.

	07-06-2004 03:55									#8
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- Hope completes worker. Starts worker.
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 mine mountain.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 move to mountain at Phoenix 7-7 and mine.
- VW#s 11,12&13 move to mountain at Resurrection 2.
- VW#s 14,15&16 move to mountain at Seabiscuit 7.
- New worker in Hope named VW#17 and moves to desert at Panama Vox 9 and irrigates.
- V.C.S. Immortal moves 8-8-9-9.
- Move catapult from Irony to New Voice and upgrade.

	13-06-2004 19:50									#9
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doing sanitation in 7 turns is actually not bad at all

I still think that we should focus more on ships, and less on artillery

Jon Miller

	13-06-2004 22:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller doing sanitation in 7 turns is actually not bad at all I still think that we should focus more on ships, and less on artillery Jon Miller

We will, but I think we should wait for destroyers. Ironclads will be obsolete the minute destroyers hit the water. Now that we know we have oil and can build the better ships I think it's more prudent to wait.

Of course it may be next month before we play the next turn the way Roleplay has been passing the saves in such a timely manner lately.

	14-06-2004 03:59									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I definitely agree with Rhoth that awaiting destroyers is a good idea. Unless we think there will be war in the next dozen turns, going from (if i remember right) 4-4-4 to like 12-6-8 or something is too big of an increase to bother building the lower one, when we can make useful things now ... and of course they're not upgradeable, which makes no sense to me...

	14-06-2004 11:13									#12
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Per orders. ND sent the gold -unaccepted so I accepted it. Lego sent the 100 gold and a worker which was added to Resurrection.

No screenshot.

	15-06-2004 07:27									#13
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I concur. Wait for DE's and BB's.

Also - a big on the research capability.

	17-06-2004 05:41									#14
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Since I didn't post orders beforehand here is the rundown. ND sent their gold and accepted the 50 from last turn. Lego sent 100 gold and 2 workers which were added to Eternity and Panama Vox.

- Renewal completes artillery and starts another.
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 move to mountain at New Voice 2 and rails
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 move to mountain at New Voice 2 and mine.
- VW#s 11,12&13 roads.
- VW#s 14,15&16 roads.
- VW#17 moves to Hope 2 and irrigates.
- New Voice WF from grass to mountain to stop growth (until the other cities catch up)
- Seabiscuit WF from hill to coast for 5 turn growth
- Phoenix WF from hill to coast for 5 turn growth
- Memory WF from hill to coast for slight growth and less shields since the artillery will be complete next turn.
- Irony WF from coast to grassland vacated by NV
- Eternity WF to 2 hills and 3 deserts
- Panama Vox WF to 2 hills and 3 deserts
- V.C.S. Immortal moves to Hope.

Voxtavia

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 17-06-2004 at 05:53

	18-06-2004 06:26									#15
	990ad Turn Orders Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

- Hope completes worker. Start worker.
- Memory completes artiller. Start artillery.
- Panama Vox completes marketplace. Start aqueduct.
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 move to mountain at Seabiscuit 7and rail.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 move to mountain at Resurrection 2 and rail.
- VW#s 11,12&13 move to hill at Eternity 7 and rail
- VW#s 14,15&16 move to mountain at Renewal 1-1.
- VW#17 rails.
- New worker in Hope named VW#18 and moves 2 and rails
- WF in Hope to fish, mountain, and irrigated grass (somehow it re-allocated to a mountain last time and I missed it so the timing is a little off ).
- WF in Memory from coast to hill (and no growth).

	18-06-2004 09:40									#16
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no one else is for faster troops isntead of artillery?

Jon Miller

	18-06-2004 09:44									#17
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I might as well give my argument

I think that we could best be a sea power, and a raiding one

I mean compared to the big 4, we will never have enough troops to make a huge difference, just making what Lego needs more of

instead we can focus on what others will not focus on, since they will focus on land military

therefore we need ships (and maybe should wait for destroyers, I always forget the upgrade path for PtW)

but as far as what works well whith ships, what would provide synergy

it isn't artillary

instead it is raiders, faster moving, attacking from the sea troops (I know that we can't build marines yet) who can hassle and bother than enemy

and maybe enough defensive troops to take the ground arround a few key cities (or to keep them when we get Marines)

we should try to make our military support eachother, so that overall it will be stronger

not just provide Lego with a few (compared to them) extra troops

Jon Miller

	18-06-2004 19:35									#18
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I agree with the sea power argument -- once we can make dest'ys we should definitely focus on them for a while. But, I like the idea of making some artillery at this point, and here's why:

Artillery are in a similar role to ships, in that they both serve during an attack to bombard a city. Unless we're going to be big enough to take cities on our own -- which seems unlikely -- we're going to be better off bombarding cities with Lego. Definitely have some defensive units to pillage, and definitely Marines once we can make them, but I think, in terms of what we can make now, making enough art'y to clear out a city would be a high goal.

For that matter, don't artillery have lethal bombard at one point (where ships do not have lethal ground bombard from what i remember)? I could see our attack plan being like this:

8 destroyers
8 artillery
8 rifle
(3 transports)

Turn 1: Bombard with dest'ys to see how many defenders there are (let's say 5 rifle). Land entire force except 4 rifle on one square away from city. Land other rifle on other squares (possibly to take away road connections or otherwise block resupply/reinforce).

Turn 2: Bombard with 8 dest'ys. Let's say that takes them down from all being 4 hp to 3 having 2 hp and 2 having 1hp, and you also find that there are 2 draftees at 2 hp. Then bombard with the 8 art'y. This should on average kill, out of the 7 riflemen, about 4. The rest have 1hp (maybe 1 will have 2hp). Then you can attack with the riflemen (4at vs 6 + 3 city bonus def). 8 riflemen at 4hp each should cream 3 1hp-2hp riflemen.

Piece of cake. Take over cities without having any 'single purpose' units (attack only) -- all 'pure defensive' units being used offensively. Other bonus of artillery is that you can be a 'sea power' but still have the ability to project that power inland. (Of course, when we get 2 mp howitzers... we're set. )

I definitely agree with at some point building defensive units, be that rifle or infantry, in quantity. I think the concern witht building those now is that they are pretty easy to build but would be expensive to upkeep every turn -- better strategy is to build the more expensive to *build* units first, to save on upkeep.

	18-06-2004 21:03									#19
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I agree with Snoopy's analysis. Artillery have a definite attack function as well as being useful on defense. Right now we can't quite build the better ships. Once we can then we will. But in the meantime we'll get a small force of artillery ready to roam our lands or load onto a transport for invasion.

As to attack units, the ONLY ones we can build right now are the 6-attack cavalry units. And they would be facing 10-defense infantry. Our production is not strong enough to devote 2 or 3 cavalry for every one defender of our opponents, even with artillery bombardment.

I still believe that right now artillery and some infantry are the best units we can build. Once the technology arrives for the better ships then we will start switching over.

	19-06-2004 20:45									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

jon - I am with snoopy and Rhoth on this one.

One question Rhoth - what about the pike and rifle upgrades, and the couple of catapults that are left. I presume you fit them in as financing allows.

Also - I notice that the other civs have moved beyond size 12 cities. I presume someone else has done sanitation.

	19-06-2004 21:17									#21
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Per orders. ND sent the 50 gold and Lego sent us the 100 gold as well as steel. One more tech and we can build destroyers.

And yes Beta I will try and fit the upgrades in as money allows. Lego needed us to go full bore on Sanitation for them, but after that we can turn it back to a more moderate pace to build up some gold. In essence though we've been building gold the whole time as Lego decided to give us 100 gold per turn even though I told them our deficit was only 80-90 per turn at full research.

	19-06-2004 22:46									#22
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Beta, can't you go over size 12 with a river near the city square?

	20-06-2004 10:45									#23
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Beta, can't you go over size 12 with a river near the city square?

That only works with size 6 cities. For beyond size 12 you need a hospital (or Shakespeare's Theater in Conquests).

We know GS has sanitation because I asked them. I believe ND mentioned they were planning on working on it as well. Lego told us the reason they need it was because they couldn't get anyone to trade it to them for a fair price and they wanted to be able to move ahead on the upper ship branch of techs (which is good since they're giving them to us for free along with funding our deficit).

	20-06-2004 11:29									#24
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Oh. for some reason i thought it worked at 12 as well.

Shows you how long it's been since i've completed a c3c game ...

and definitely a good deal for us. Looks like Lego sees us as a sort of small science lab ... we develop what they need on the side branches for cheap (well, 100gp a turn isn't exactly CHEAP, mind you, but still better to us than to enemies)

ftm, isn't the almost 1k gp sort of ... high ... for a tech of this nature?? Guess we should be glad they're nice ...

	21-06-2004 09:46									#25
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I don't have time tonight to get the full orders up, but I want to at least put this up so I don't forget again

- Send communism-accepted to Gathering Storm.

	21-06-2004 21:12									#26
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yah, Lego is nice (and we will need to pay later)

they arew fuding our ability to be decently strong so that they have an ally when they are going for the win (and not someone who will try to steal the win themsevles)

what I was thinking with more move troops, is to hvae pillaging (in a way, force any opponeent to spread out to deal with us)

JKon Miller

	21-06-2004 21:50									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller yah, Lego is nice (and we will need to pay later) they arew fuding our ability to be decently strong so that they have an ally when they are going for the win (and not someone who will try to steal the win themsevles) what I was thinking with more move troops, is to hvae pillaging (in a way, force any opponeent to spread out to deal with us) JKon Miller

When the time comes I think we should build some tanks, but until that time I honestly think it would do us more harm than good to have cavalry. Building them now would suck up resources that would be better used to build other things that will remain useful throughout the rest of the game, rather than already be outdated. I can understand the pillaging that you want, but I just think it would be a bad idea to build cavalry after their heyday is already passed.

	22-06-2004 05:16									#28
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I second Rhoth's motion. Mostly because he had no spelling mistakes, jon.

On a more serious note - I think his plan is sound. Modern ships and modern tanks. That is the way to go.

snoop - as to our relationship with Lego - fair bit of history here. We are basically a research lab. But Rhoth has also created a thriving - albeit small - civilization, that can still play a part in this thing. And I do think it will get interesting once again. Sooner or later - GoW and GS will need to do something. The ending to this one should be fun.

	22-06-2004 10:06									#29
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I need to get back into getting my orders up before playing.

Lego sent the 100 gold.

- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 mine mountain.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 mine mountain.
- VW#s 11,12&13 mine hill.
- VW#s 14,15&16 road mountain.
- VW#s 17&18 move to grassland at Hope 9 and rail.
- WF in Hope to fish, 2 coast and grassland (this will get us back on track).
- Communism sent to GS

	24-06-2004 05:51									#30
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Once again I can't say 'per orders'.

Lego sent the 100 gold.

- New Voice completes infantry. Start factory.
- VW#s 1,2,3,4&5 move to mountain at Renewal 1-1 and mine.
- VW#s 6,7,8,9&10 move to coal mountain and rail.
- VW#s 11,12,13,14&15 rail mountain at Renewal 1-1.
- VW#s 16,17&18 move to mountain at Phoenix 1.
- Irony WF from grassland to coast.
- New Voice WF from mountain to grassland.
- Memory WF from hill to coast.
- Hope WF to fish and 3 coast.

Sanitation in 1 turn thanks to the two coastal moves.