04-06-2004 18:05									#1
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Is anyone else utterly pissed off by the condescending ****** in this world that criticize people as being "uncultured" because they don't enjoy Opera, classical music, literature, etc?

The whole concept of being "uncultured" is preposterous, I think everyone in this world is involved in a culture of some kind.

But maybe they will concede that point. And to continue their argument, they'll likely rate cultures and say that it may be a culture, but it's not as sophisticated as their culture.

The thing I find funniest about that is their whole attitude is perhaps the most childish and unsophisticated of them all.

You like Opera, I like Rock Concerts.
You like Ballet, I like Hockey.
You like Literature, I like Gaming.
You've memorized every movie that Judy Garland was in, and I can recite the many quotes from Office Space.

So what does it mean to be uncultured, and what does this say about the people who throw that around to try to be insulting?

	04-06-2004 18:07									#2
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Yes, i hate the arrogant upper-class aswell.

	04-06-2004 18:17									#3
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You're not cultured, Glonkie. Just deal with it.

	04-06-2004 18:18									#4
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Uncultured = free of mould.

Seriously, I think people who get snooty because you don't dig what they dig are unreasonable.

But I don't let the overbearing ****wits get me down.

	04-06-2004 18:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Seriously, I think people who get snooty because you don't dig what they dig are unreasonable.

Yeah, especially when it's something as stupid as an operating system.

	04-06-2004 18:27									#6
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quote: You're not cultured, Glonkie. Just deal with it.

Culture . It's good to have SOME sophisticated tastes.

	04-06-2004 18:30									#7
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Actually, it all comes down to people who believe that if they like/own something, it must therefore be THE BEST thing of its type, no matter what it is, and won't accept the possibility that THEIR thing could merely be one option among many. You know, like with computer programs or cars, or music...

-Arrian

	04-06-2004 19:08									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian You know, like with computer programs or cars, or music...

Imran: Why is it good to have "sophisticated" tastes? First, define "sophisticated" for me. then tell me why it's good to have those kinds of tastes.

For what it's worth, I do have sophisticated tastes. I won't drink American beer, for example. Nor would I ever, ever, live in the southern US...

	04-06-2004 19:11									#9
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Macs are for the uncultured.

thats something me and ahser could agree on no?

	04-06-2004 19:14									#10
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I'd say the people who read literature from over 10 years ago are uncultured, don't they get that they should be reading Harry Potter?



And actually, a lot of the people who prance around claiming to be "cultured" are Mac users. It's just the transfer of one irrational thought to another, nothing surprising.

	04-06-2004 19:19									#11
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I guess to be "cultured" means to be in touch with a reasonable variety of the cultures that surround you. You can go to the Opera and listen to classical music all day long, but if that's all you know then you can hardly be considered "cultured".

	04-06-2004 19:22									#12
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Even Mozart was popculture once.

	04-06-2004 19:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I guess to be "cultured" means to be in touch with a reasonable variety of the cultures that surround you. You can go to the Opera and listen to classical music all day long, but if that's all you know then you can hardly be considered "cultured".

	04-06-2004 19:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I guess to be "cultured" means to be in touch with a reasonable variety of the cultures that surround you. You can go to the Opera and listen to classical music all day long, but if that's all you know then you can hardly be considered "cultured".

So would you agree that it would be unreasonable and rather stupid for somebody on Apolyton to accuse someone else of being "uncultured" because they stated how they liked, say, a popular band?

	04-06-2004 19:24									#15
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Its a factor of ageism. Another tool for evil adults to keep down da kids.

Think of how this often starts, its a generational thing. "That rap music is garbage, not real music at all. Now THIS (insert older more 'cultured' music here) is quality music."

Remember also that a lot of the "cultured" things were put down when they first emerged. Most art was described as garbage by older generations, most music the same. Then the younger generation who produced said "uncultured" products got older, took the reigns of social power and condemned the products of their children as "uncultured trash".

This cycle has been going for many generations. Ageism is behind it.

	04-06-2004 19:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So would you agree that it would be unreasonable and rather stupid for somebody on Apolyton to accuse someone else of being "uncultured" because they stated how they liked, say, a popular band?

Of course. Add to that the fact that very few people on here have any clue about what goes on in any of the lives of the other posters here, and the person who said that looks even more stupid.

	04-06-2004 19:27									#17
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My main problem is the definition of "culture" by the pretentious people who accuse others of being uncultured.

There is a Canadian culture, which I was involved with last night: Drinking beer and watching the Stanley Cup Finals with friends, and then celebrating once we got an OT goal.

There is the Gay culture, which I see when I go down to Church Street and which I am a part of rather fundamentally...

There is the Geek culture, where I can talk with other geeks in weird ways and read technical books in my free time.

There is the Gamer culture, where I attend LAN parties and Halo-a-thons and play video games with friends and with people I don't know from around the world.

There is the Musical culture, where I listen to my favorite music, and play guitar/piano.

There's lots of culture, the problem is it's not "culture'. There's nothing inherently sophisticated (read: elitist) in that list, which classifies me as "uncultured" in the eyes of the flippant "cultured" judges.

	04-06-2004 19:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So would you agree that it would be unreasonable and rather stupid for somebody on Apolyton to accuse someone else of being "uncultured" because they stated how they liked, say, a popular band?

well this whole anti-pop thing with geeks and losers in general is stupid enough by itself. And theres too much of it in poly.

	04-06-2004 19:28									#19
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Its a factor of ageism. Another tool for evil adults to keep down da kids. Think of how this often starts, its a generational thing. "That rap music is garbage, not real music at all. Now THIS (insert older more 'cultured' music here) is quality music." Remember also that a lot of the "cultured" things were put down when they first emerged. Most art was described as garbage by older generations, most music the same. Then the younger generation who produced said "uncultured" products got older, took the reigns of social power and condemned the products of their children as "uncultured trash". This cycle has been going for many generations. Ageism is behind it.

While I think your general idea has merit, I would point out that it takes a lot more talent to play a traditional musical instrument than it does to chant any old garbage into a microphone.

Also, rap music is technically identical to Viking war chanting, so it's not really anything new.

	04-06-2004 19:32									#20
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When you break it right down to it's most basic level, a "culture" is just a set of things that people tend to do. You can think your culture is better than the culture of others, but for the most part that's just a matter of opinion.

	04-06-2004 19:32									#21
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quote: Why is it good to have "sophisticated" tastes?

Because you are embracing those things which have filtered down throughout history. It is basically keeping touch with how we all got here. Of course that is associated with elitism because it usually is the more conservative sort who have embraced the sophisticated taste (because conservativism is the embracing of political thought which has slowly filtered down throughout history). But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

	04-06-2004 19:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

I wouldn't mind so much if the elitist art forms didn't get massive state hand outs (at least in the UK).

Cut the aid, watch the ticket price go through the roof, and then see how the snooty brigade support "their" artforms.

They'd be buying shooters and bling-bling like it was going out of fashion.

	04-06-2004 19:37									#23
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Some "uncultured" things are universally preferred.

Cultured pearls, for example, are nice - but not in the same class as real ones.

	04-06-2004 19:39									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Why is it good to have "sophisticated" tastes? Because you are embracing those things which have filtered down throughout history. It is basically keeping touch with how we all got here. Of course that is associated with elitism because it usually is the more conservative sort who have embraced the sophisticated taste (because conservativism is the embracing of political thought which has slowly filtered down throughout history). But what is wrong with elitism anyway?

Oh, there's nothing wrong with elitism. It's just a Jr. High mentality, is all. It's sad more than anything else.

	04-06-2004 19:42									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy While I think your general idea has merit, I would point out that it takes a lot more talent to play a traditional musical instrument than it does to chant any old garbage into a microphone. Also, rap music is technically identical to Viking war chanting, so it's not really anything new.

Just wait a few decades when hip hop gets revered as high culture. Remember it takes a lot more talent to make a traditional painting than slosh some paint on the canvas like those hacks Picasso, Pollock, and Monet. That exactly what was said when modern art, and even impressionism and such came out. These were talentless hacks who couldn't do a "proper painting".

I think rapping takes a tremendous amount of talent. I can't do it. Its not just stringing words together in a chant, you have to have a flow that works with the music and such.

Plus as for instrumentation, I'd put the skills of an expert electric guitarist against any classical musician.

	04-06-2004 19:46									#26
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Well... OK, some raps show genuine talent, depth and emotion.

The vast majority that I hear are genuinely crap.

Maybe dissing the whole genre is elistist - but's it's just as elitist to say it's the best thing ever.

Just another artform.

	04-06-2004 19:47									#27
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quote: Plus as for instrumentation, I'd put the skills of an expert electric guitarist against any classical musician.

A slight nitpick, but wouldn't a guitar (non-electric, of course) be a traditional musical instrument?

	04-06-2004 19:50									#28
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quote: Oh, there's nothing wrong with elitism. It's just a Jr. High mentality, is all. It's sad more than anything else.

Elitism based on intellect is a far different animal than elitism based on popularity. I think many more people that you'd think prefer their, say, political leaders to be somewhat of an intellectual elite. In fact, I'd say plenty back Kerry over Bush in the US elections over this - intellectual elite vs. common man buffoon.

	04-06-2004 19:51									#29
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cul·tured ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchrd)
adj.

1. Educated, polished, and refined; cultivated.
2. Produced under artificial and controlled conditions: cultured pearls.

	04-06-2004 19:53									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Well... OK, some raps show genuine talent, depth and emotion. The vast majority that I hear are genuinely crap.

Vast majority of any genre i hear are crap talent wise.

You dont have to have talent to make a good song, but yeah most rappers are crap just like most rock bands are crap and most pianists are crap. some show genuine talent, depth and emotion