11-06-2004 13:54									#91
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They're simple razzle-dazzle designed to part suckers from their money.

	11-06-2004 13:58									#92
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It doesn't matter Parkie. People can't win from slot machines. First of all, the casino/establishment/whatever takes a cut, then the owner of the machines takes a cut. What's left will be shared among the players. As you can see, the players lose.

	11-06-2004 14:01									#93
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"What's left will be shared among the players. As you can see, the players lose."

If you take the "players" as the group of all those who play on the machine then yes. No Brit in this thread ever denied that.

But there are definitely "skills" you can gain on British slots (more like experience really). For example, when a machine is backing, usually it's ready to drop.

If you don't know what I'm on it, it's probably because our respective slots would appear foreign to each other. I'd probably be useless on yours and vice versa.

	11-06-2004 14:03									#94
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So what I am saying is that if you gain more knowledge, skill, experience, whatever on a slot in a pub here, it's likely you can pick the best times to go on it and play it during those times when it is paying out above average.

	11-06-2004 14:49									#95
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PA is right.

If you know what you are doing (how to play the features, when to hold what, etc.) you can at least make sure that your overall losses are minimised by, for example, taking £3 when it's offered and not risking trying for £5 or the jackpot.

	11-06-2004 15:01									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident where are the slot machines? in someone's house?

Yes, they can be, actually. My father has owned about three fruit machines, with our Only Fools and Horses machine being the crowning glory, sitting in the corner of our old dining room. I learnt a lot of the basics on that, like three holds of two symbols gives you a win, don't hold after a nudge to two symbols, etc. Stuff that probably means nothing to you.

	11-06-2004 15:21									#97
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Ah. The basics.

	11-06-2004 15:22									#98
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Bascially if you know more than the average punter about the machines, you stand a better chance of winning and making your own payuout rate somewhere above that magical 100% figure.

	11-06-2004 15:23									#99
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On the big payout machines it's sometimes worth holding big payout icons (say the cashpot logo) one nudge above the winline. If the machine is paying, it'll probably sort something out for you...

Oh and going lower than an 11 or higher than a 2 for a jackpot from £15 is just crazyness

	11-06-2004 15:26									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Ah. The basics.

Yes... "the basics", as I myself described them But there's still lots of people who don't know how they work, and its their ignorance that benefits us

I played another OF&H machine in Devon a couple of months ago. It was the most bizarre fruit machine ever. It had a telephone attached to it, and if you answered it quickly enough then it would give you a win. Yeah

	11-06-2004 15:28									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Yes... "the basics", as I myself described them But there's still lots of people who don't know how they work, and its their ignorance that benefits us

That was a wistful looking back in fondness "ah the basics" not a taking the piss one.

	11-06-2004 15:29									#103
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Oh and you gotta get your mobile phones ready for Follow Me...

	11-06-2004 15:33									#104
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What, how does that work? That's the bonus-type thing where you get three numbers appear on the display and you usually have to follow the highest one, don't you? Where do the mobiles come in?

	11-06-2004 15:37									#105
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No, you get a progression of anything from 3 to 10 "numbers" which you have to follow with the hold buttons. yes?

	11-06-2004 15:42									#106
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Oh yes. I never got those ones.

	11-06-2004 15:49									#107
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I thought everyone did it

	11-06-2004 16:19									#108
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You can play with that minimal level of skill that the parameters of the particular design allows.

But, unless an error has been made, that cannot get you to 100%. It gets you to precisely and exactly where the person who sets up the machine allows. And he is just not a philanthropist.

What you are doing is what lots and lots of folk who like a flutter do. They assume that they are playing against the othere punters - in your case the other people who feed the machines.

So someone who plays the horses knows that the bookie sets odds to ensure a round book (which ensures that whichever horse wins he cannot lose) but he tells himself this does not matter - as long as there are mugs putting money into the system it is largely their money the bookie is taking off the top (by having a round book) and there is still plenty available for him to win because of his skill at reading form or inside information or whatever.

And this is what you are doing with all the things you describe.

Now I like to play poker. but I like to play in one situation only. Those playing must be running the game for themselves.

I do not play in a casino.

What is the difference? When you play in a private school you are just playing the other players. In a casino - as with the bookies and such things as slots - there is a house taking a slice off the top.

And I don't kid myself. The slice off the top takes my money as well as everyone else's. Maybe the mug loses his money to the other players nice and quickly. He departs - leaving a chunk of his money in front of the other players and a bit of it down in the slot where the house collects its cut. Much later the better players start to depart - and they have been seeing that cut inexorably disappear down the slot the whole time. It did not stop happening when the first mug left.

You can't buck that house cut. You can look, if you really must, for the lowest percentage slice. The even money bets in roulette in a European casino (one zero) are the lowest - one and a half per cent. But you can see how little that low figure is liked by the way the Yanks double it by having two zeros.

It is your money going and if you back your skill to offset it, even at a game with some genuine level of skill involved, you are an optimist.

If you think skill has a blind bit to do with the outcome of betting on slot machines you are not an optimist you are a mug.

Buy your own machine. Set it up at home and play it there. You can watch the lights flash and exercise all the little bits and pieces that you describe as skill (can this be a civ player?) but you can also have the satisfaction of emptying the machine of the percentage taken off the top.

	11-06-2004 17:04									#109
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"But, unless an error has been made, that cannot get you to 100%. It gets you to precisely and exactly where the person who sets up the machine allows. And he is just not a philanthropist.

What you are doing is what lots and lots of folk who like a flutter do. They assume that they are playing against the othere punters - in your case the other people who feed the machines."

And I am one of the better slot players (when sober ), my mates call me a pro at uni, I just tend to laugh at them. But once you've built up a bank of knowledge about slot machines you definitely give yourself quite a good edge over other punters. If the payout is set high enough (most machines aren't as low as 70%, those that are play so abysmally that if the percentage payout were raised, more players would play so greater revenue for the slot owner), and you aren't playing them "blind", ie you've seen a bit of the history of the machine, then the experienced slot player would be very unlucky not to have the chance at some point to walk away with a profit.

I've just come back from my local about £8 up. Last time it was about £6 up. The time before that I went up to Walkden and won about £15.

I know I might lose sometimes, but these were blind plays, based on that scallies were probably in there last night getting pissed and doing the quiz night. You know, six baseball caps and tracky bottoms round a machine, egging each other on to go for the jackpot (£25). They leave it a bit loaded so you go on put in three quid and win say six back and walk.

If we ever have a Poly meet up, we'd best do it in a place like Wethies with a few slots in view and I'll try and show you what I mean. For example, one weekend, me and three mates each put a quid into a slot. Stupid for trying to split the wins I know.

But we put £4 in and took £7. No easy way to split £3 between four of us so we put it inot a "pot", only to be accessed with the agreement of three of the four of us to play on a slot. By playing conservatively (ie, taking smallish wins), we pushed it up to £14 that afternoon. It payed for food and booze at a mate's house before a night out.

Sure, the slot owners take a cut. But if they didn't make it seem that you could regularly win, the slots would always sit empty. They need to make them playable and winnable from. And punters aren't stupid. So they can't just make it seem that you could regularly win, they've got to program that in.

So the seasoned slot player might be able to regularly make decent wins, probably at the expense of the people here who complain about slots.

	11-06-2004 22:50									#110
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EST

And thank god, I was beginning to think that all Brits were a bunch of sucker punters.

Edit: Even though I think Stewie is a complete idiot, I still want to say "You friggen idiot. Grasp the concept. Slot machines are designed to make money from the house. You will not make it rich playing the slots, you will only lose money. If you want a guaranteed way to make money, get a friggen job. You go someplace for eight hours, do a bunch of useless stuff and people give you money. What could be better."

	11-06-2004 22:54									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Sure, the slot owners take a cut. But if they didn't make it seem that you could regularly win, the slots would always sit empty.

I disagree. People pump money into pinball machines and arcade games even if they can't make any money. Slots are just another form of entertainment for many people.

	11-06-2004 23:03									#112
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You have somewhat of a point, the only times I play fruit machines are when I have a spare few quid burning a hole in my pocket, I don't mind if I lose. But if it was absolutely clear to me that if I put my money in the machines I'd be getting nothign back, no way would I ever play.

But I really think PA did a huge boo-boo in titling this thread "Slot Machines"... it does conjure up the Las Vegas-style image of slot machines rather than the more amusement-styled British machines.

	12-06-2004 01:00									#113
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What do you call them Gibise? Slots is the term I usually use...fruities?

	12-06-2004 01:09									#114
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Anyone played Big Cheese? Tis truly awful

	12-06-2004 01:44									#115
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It seems to me that we have a lot of non-Brits telling Brits how Brit slot machines operate?

	12-06-2004 02:35									#116
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So true

	12-06-2004 02:36									#117
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You're lying! Chips are never that thick!

	12-06-2004 02:56									#118
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever It seems to me that we have a lot of non-Brits telling Brits how Brit slot machines operate?

From my first post:

quote: I don't know how it is over there... but some basic rules for playing slots in the US.

I've stated that my opinions are based on slot machines as they are in the US... from the sound of things, it is different over there.

I will still argue that probability remains the same based on everything I'm seen here... but maybe things are different over there

	12-06-2004 03:43									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I've stated that my opinions are based on slot machines as they are in the US... from the sound of things, it is different over there.

YOU'RE excused then.....

EDIT: Your quote tags are messed up

	12-06-2004 03:51									#120
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Thank you