 |
| |
|
|
finbar
|
 |
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Carlos may have a life line. You picked it up yourself Finbar but it was staggering, having read you saying how he had improved somewhat in this area in S12, to see Merhtens prove utterly useless in defence. |
No, I said Mehrtens was attacking the line more in S12 rather than just passing the ball and fleeing to fullback. At least that's what I meant to say. Still, his defence in S12 was better than the dismal stuff he produced on Saturday. Still, again, he had some mates. There was sloppy AB defence all over the park compared to how they performed against us.
quote:
What does Henry do? Carlos has no plan B, Merhtens has no tackle. Is Carter the man he should try? I know nothing about the lad but the Bok commentators seem to think he may be the next man tried in the great Graham Henry merry go round. |
Carter doesn't look it, but he's a tough little bugger, not afraid to tackle. I think the first thing G. Henry has to do is try something other than that flat backline. As I said last week, modern defences are so fit and so well drilled that it makes the flat attack not only difficult but dangerous. Turnovers are waiting to happen. I had a look at the BBC website forum. One Kiwi poster was attacking G. Henry for rendering a great attacking backline impotent.  Anyway, playing deeper would benefit either Carlos or Mehrtens.
quote:
The temptation to say ‘told you so’ about Mr H is proving almost irresistible.  |
Let's see what happens next. In fact, I when do they play next?
quote:
What really concerns me is what this all says about the squad England took down south – I think in retrospect it was worse than I thought at the time – and that is terrifying! Still next time they come up to HQ, in five or six years time, we might have a strong aggressive defence again. You never know. |
And in five or six years, they'll have a new coach - they'll probably have had several new coaches - and they won't be suspect in the face of strong defence. 
quote:
*Edit* Wilko is due to play his first rugby of 2004 tomorrow in Falcons friendly against Galway. It's essential to Englands autumn hopes that he holds up to the test. |
Galway, huh? Nothing like diving in at the deep end.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Caught out again. I really should look back at what you actually said rather than what I thought you might have. |
Don't bother. I know what I said. My qualification was a rare foray into humility. I found it vastly overrated. I shan't bother with it again.
quote:
I don’t consider G.Henry good at reviewing his gameplans. I seriously doubt if he will abandon the flat approach just yet. I will be watching with great interest. |
I still can't fathom why he's even pursuing the flat plan. He has the three most devastating runners in rugby and they are, effectively, manacled. Still, as you've said once or twice, he's a tad suspect as a coach.
quote:
A traditional AB tour – two patsies followed by one real test. They face Italy, Wales and then France in November. Lose to Wales and the coach will have to go I suspect. I rather expect they may lose to France – but it all depends which French team turns up. |
Nothing before that tour? Cripes, what an empty season.
quote:
Yes but we will perhaps be World Champions again by that point. |
Nuh. Boks, if they continue to improve, or us.
quote:
I think it needs to be gentle first run out – |
But, honestly, Galway? He'd have a bigger test bouncing off the sofa at home.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
What is humility? |
I'm too modest to say.
quote:
A lot was written about some of his coaching decisions on the last Lions tour – it might be worth you reading back on some of it (not the Healey or Dawson parts) as it gives a flavour of a man who is totally convinced he is right – and unwilling to change when evidence appears to the contrary. Thus far his AB tenure is shaping the same way. |
Does J**** cover it in his book? I might lash out. But only if you extract 50% of the purchase price from him and forward it to me.
quote:
Don’t forget they are about to launch into their beloved NPC. That fills the gap between 3N and tour nicely. Rabeni is not joining us until October because of it. So a month and a bit for Mr Healey to make the wing his own (we bought a scrummie in the close season to back up Ellis so VD is now ‘Utility Back’). |
You see, in this country, a utility - called a "ute" - is a vehicle used by tradesmen, usually full of crap. Quite apposite, really.
quote:
Well the Wallabies always have a chance however dire their form in the build up. But you will be the dads army next time in at least one position – scrummie. George may be staying on too long? Is the understudy lad (whittaker?) getting any game time at all? The improvement in the Boks has been a joy to watch – can they maintain it? |
George is signing on again for next year. He talks about the next World Cup, but whether he goes that far is another matter. He certainly won't if age starts to catch up with him. He has increasing business interests and he wouldn't hesitate to give it away. Poor old Chris Whitaker certainly won't be around at World Cup time. Young Brumbie Matt Henjak will probably step up to the bench next season and, if George does give it away, all being well, Henjak will be wearing #9 at the World Cup. Very talented young player, contemporary of Matt Giteau's, similar skills.
Look, unless internal Bok politics blow up again, this Boks' coach seems to be the real deal. Intelligent, shrewd, and, apparently, a good people manager. There's some terrific young talent in that side - though I suspect Percy will be found out again sooner or later - and I can see them getting better and better. Their centres certainly did their job on the weekend instead of head-hunting, and their back row could finish up the best in the world.
quote:
The favourites are still France though. |
Can you imagine Tamerlin if they won? 
quote:
*edit* Rotherhams huge financial gamble to join the top flight has reached it's almost inevitable end after they lived (and failed) the dream last year - unless a buyer comes forward before Friday they are going into liquidation. It's hard to break the clique of the Premiership - lets see if Duckworths money can do it for Worcester. |
Yes, I read on the BBC website, I think it was, that Rotheram were going to court, or thinking of going to court to keep out Worcester. They've caught the Big Boys' disease. Poor bastards. It must be so difficult to compete - on and off the field - against the established units.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Any English premiership game is of greater stature than a tri-nations match surely. |
quote:
It was a good game to watch but shall we say it was a little error ridden? |
One of the scrappiest, error-ridden Tests I've seen in years. Nerves on both sides obviously played a part early on, particularly for poor Rathbone, but there was no excuse for some of the ongoing sloppiness. Phil Waugh dropping the ball cold? Good grief!
quote:
One thing I noticed Cannon needs his arse kicking - as does George for going at the ref rather than sorting the lad out. What possessed him to push Paddy on the line outs? |
The problem was that Cannon simply couldn't hear the lineout calls. The crowd noise was deafening. Even the ref told the TV ref to tell him through the ear piece when the final hooter was being sounded because he wouldn't be able to hear it over the crowd. That said, Cannon should have dealt with the problem after the first ocurrance. He should have got together with Plank - the lineout caller - before he went to the touchline to throw.
quote:
And just when you wanted Sharpe to keep his form didn't he go largely AWOL? |
He and the rest of the forwards were AWOL, miles below what they'd done against the Boks, the first time, and the ABs.
quote:
I look forward to your thoughts on the game Finbar! |
I was massively frustrated, swearing at the TV! The last 15 minutes of the first half, and the last ten minutes of the match aside, it's probably the worst the Wallabies have played since the ABs hammered us last season. As you observed, Sharpe - and the rest of the forwards - went AWOL. They were slow to the breakdown, letting the Boks either tie up the ball or even pilfer it. Baxter, at tighthead, was made to look stupid by the Ox. Thus, the 25 or so minutes referred to above aside, we were barely on the front foot. And on the rare occasions that we were, the unforced errors killed us. Eddie was furious after the match, and rightly so. Everything that had been done the right way for several weeks, was suddenly done the wrong way. You can't coach for that sort of thing.
And yet we came close to winning. Sure, they were two men down, but they were lucky they only lost Paulse for deliberate breakdown infringements. That we came close to winning is testament to how the Wallabies can play when they get it at least half right. It's also testament to the problems the Boks have. They would get to second or third phase, setting up something really threatening, only to lose the plot completely. And it happened too often to be an accident. They don't yet have an on-field general, evidenced by their replacement of the scrummy at half time.
Their first 20 minutes of the second half won them the match, even if the first try was sheer luck. Ultimately, while the win meant a trophy, and good luck to the Boks for winning it, I don't think it's a match that will be remembered for its standards. Quite the opposite, in fact.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
The first of what hopefully not will be a series of postcards from abroad!
quote:
There were mixed feelings after my first competitive game for Toulouse, a 28-16 loss at Pau.
I'm playing full-back at the moment, but that may change. I enjoyed it, but was really disappointed to lose, we realise that as a team we were rusty.
It was a different style of rugby and I have a lot to learn about the way they play in France.
I need to get more involved as I didn't see a lot of the ball. It was a tight game, but it was also because I was playing the kind of game I was used to at home.
The Celtic League is a great competition, it compares to the Zurich Premiership and the French Championship, but the style of play is different.
There are a lot of strong teams here and Pau are not the toughest we are going to face.
The French sides treat their home ground as a fortress. The supporters are very vocal and will let their team know exactly how they are doing.
It's very important for a side to get the crowd going, then they can be worth a good 10-12 points per game.
My ankle's feeling fine after the injury I suffered in May. It swells up after training on the hard ground, but I get ice on it, the doctors are absolutely fabulous out here, and I'm always ready to go the next day.
I'm playing full-back at the moment, but it's going to be a long season and that may change.
The Toulouse players who toured with France in the summer - including their regular full-back Clement Poitrenaud - can't play for the first couple of matches in the Championship.
Toulouse like their players to be interchangeable and I think that's part of the reason they chose to bring me here.
I'm willing to play anywhere and at the moment I'm just glad to make the 22.
Off the pitch life is great, we have a beautiful house to enjoy and I'm mixing with all the boys in the team.
I'm getting by with the language, but a lot of my friends want to practice their English so when I try to speak French they stop me!
I'm desperate to learn more, though, because until I get there I'm still an outsider and I can't bring my personality out.
I'm big mates with Trevor Brennan and that's been ideal - he's good at French and has been here a long time.
When it comes to putting in my satellite TV or needing a fridge, Trevor knows the people to see.
I understand that my new haircut has been creating a bit of interest, so I thought I'd better clear up what that was all about...
When you play your first game for Toulouse they shave your head as an initiation, but I thought that would be a bit boring.
I decided to take the mick out of our forwards coach Serge Lairle who's bald on top and has hair at the back and sides - I even grew a moustache like his!
Coming to one of the top teams in Europe it was just good to realise that rugby's rugby and off the field the Toulouse boys are just the same as at my hometown club of Pencoed. |
Next time I need a new fridge or satellite TV, remind me to get Trevor around. And The Celtic League compares to the Zurich Premiership and the French Championship? Will someone please take to this idiot Taffy's writing hand with a meat cleaver?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
That was a truly fantastic game don’t you think? But enough of England sealing a 4-0 whitewash over the Windies lets talk about rugby instead. |
And I gather we're currently in the land of Edam and windmills playing yet another meaningless one-day festival.
quote:
As I have said I really enjoyed the game – although both teams looked nervous throughout as you say Finbar. The occasion clearly got to them. Surprising for such a seasoned Wallaby outfit – usually with ice cold nerves. |
We are, as is well known, expert at shooting ourselves in the collective adidases (or Nikes, or whatever they wear) at the most inappropriate times. We did it again. Eddie is absolutely spewing. And with very good reason.
quote:
There was however another disaster on Saturday. Tigers traditionally do not win the pre-season friendlies they have. They ruined this record with a 36-0 away win over Edinburgh. |
If you traditionally lose the friendlies, that means you must've lost them last season. The prelude to a disastrous season. So, this season, a win in a friendly could mean ... no, I can't bring myself to type it ...
quote:
Even with an inexperienced tight head the Boks worked your front row very hard. Although their loose forwards were somewhat muted compared to earlier games? A strange game all around. |
Well, Al Baxter was made to look stupid and everything flowed from there. Their loosies were down on their usual form, but they were still more effective than ours, particularly at the breakdown, and that's where we lost it. We had phase after phase of snail's-pace ball - before we coughed it up anyway. The key to our two bursts of good rugby - twenty minutes before half time, and the last ten minutes - was getting quick ball. There just wasn't enough of it. And the Boks need much better organisation in attack if they're going to progress. Just about every third phase or fourth phase saw a fat forward standing where he shouldn't have been.
quote:
But that doesn’t stop me asking what it is like to support the second best side in the SH? |
Angry. We're the best by a bit of a margin. One match aside. Actually, I think I read somewhere that, despite losing on Saturday, we're - somehow - ranked first in the world. I don't know which ranking it was. Homer Simpson got it right - "stupid rankings!".
quote:
And I can’t believe the ABs are now the third best down there. I’m just using the same criteria you applied to the 6N (when you were in fact far too generous to England when you said third best). |
Put it this way, I'd rather be Jake White or Eddie (once he calms down) than G. Henry at the moment.
quote:
How sad would it be if it was already ghost written? |
The man's a complete and utter moron. It reads like a prep school Grade 6 "What I Did On My Holidays" presentation.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Yes indeed. With India and Pakistan. Can’t quite fathom the choice of venue myself? |
Some asinine ICC take-the-game-to-the-cricketing-colonies scheme, probably. For many years, touring Australian sides played a match there on the their way to - or home from - England. Jack Potter, an early 60s very fine Victorian batsman who wasn't quite up to Test standard, played in one of the matches and suffered the indignity of a fractured skull.
quote:
Heads to roll do you think? Sacrificial lambs? Cannon, Baxter and Dunning to take a fall onto their swords? |
No, but John Roe will be looked at as a starting player. That's the second or third time he's come off the bench and made an impact. Qualified doctor, very rugged #8 or flanker, and can jump in the lineout. He and Chris Latham were Queensland's best by a mile in S12 this season.
quote:
I was impressed, when you got quick ball, at how threatening Tuqiri proved. The Bok rush defence was wide open to his muscular style of counter attack I felt. Turning into a great rugger player that lad. As for Wendell though – fish out of water still most of the time. |
Yes, Tuquiri is learning all the time. This is still really only his second year of rugby. What I like about him - apart from his speed, strength and skills - is that, as he gains more experience, he's taking the initiative, coming off his wing and putting himself into the game. He has the brain for the game that Wendell clearly lacks. Matt Rogers will also be back for the NH tour, so he will add to the penetration, too.
quote:
Mortlock by the way was clearly a marked man – he suffered some huge ‘challenges’ from the Boks that at times harked back to a now largely abandoned style… |
Yep. He was very quiet early, but once he got some of the ball they were obviously after him. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be standing in the way of one of his charges. 
quote:
Just to make you feel better I think I agree. The best international rugby I have seen this year has been from the Wallabies I think. You probably are worth the number one tag – accepting the fact that such things are largely meaningless of course. |
But of course! The problem is, we can produce stinkers like last Saturday.
quote:
It could be a tough autumn tour though – You are sandwiching France between training runs against Scotland and then ending up walloping us at HQ. Four tests in four weeks is a big ask of your boys. |
Yes, but, on the other hand, I don't think we're getting any top level rugby between now and then. Our club rugby is hardly demanding. So there can't be any real end-of-season tiredness excuses. And we're notorious for starting campaigns slowly. We might end up needing the work outs against the Scots.
quote:
We should make a better showing – for all his faults Clive has apparently been reading the riot act and certain players have been told to buck up – but no one knows who (I am tempted to say all of them). |
Mmmm. Let's see who he selects. Let's see if he's prepared to flick the average players who were lifted beyond their true levels by J****'s leadership. Because without that leadership, they're never going to be any better than average. Let's see if he can find some young talent that promises to be much better than average, even if it takes a couple of seasons.
quote:
He is a man under pressure. Part of me is surprised he has not been sacked yet. But I feel sorry for him in a way – the lack of flexibility is entirely his fault of course but the stand off problem is not. What he needs is an amalgam of Mouth and Carlos so he has a stand off that can attack, defend and bring control to a game all in one go. |
They wouldn't sack him yet. Not in a fit. And I'd've thought his first priority was to abandon the silly flat backline and give his runners the room to do what they do best - cut defences to ribbons. The flat backline might work against crap defence - no names, no packdrill, you skinny English winger! - but good defence will kill them more often than not.
quote:
The man is a valleys boy – what did you expect? |
I can see him arm-in-arm with Tamerlin crooning "Men of Harlech".
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Havak
|
 |
Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:36
|
|
quote:
Some asinine ICC take-the-game-to-the-cricketing-colonies scheme, probably |
It was a similar misguided policy that led to that whole ashes debacle.
Holland do have a side – but like Ireland and Scotland it is a sub-county standard outfit. As with Rugby it has no chance of breaking the hold S***** has on the Dutch hearts and minds.
And I bet Jack Potter was happy he made the trip?
Do you think Roe will oust Lyons – the latter was also extremely quiet last weekend?
There are a lot of names in your tour squad that I know nothing about – Croft, Fitter, Mathison, Mitchell and Shepherd for starters. Is Eddie blooding youth?
quote:
Matt Rogers will also be back for the NH tour, so he will add to the penetration, too. |
Good news for the Wallabies – not so good for us. His old nemesis (and rib breaker) Lewsey will be lucky to make the side after the summer.
quote:
Frankly, I wouldn't want to be standing in the way of one of his charges. |
I’ve had the same thought myself.
quote:
The problem is, we can produce stinkers like last Saturday. |
As long as the next one is saved for 27th November.
quote:
And we're notorious for starting campaigns slowly. We might end up needing the work outs against the Scots. |
In theory they, like the English, should be at their peak in the Autumn. Match fit but not yet fatigued by the season. Not that I expect any shocks from the Scots – some brave defence followed by a late collapse I would expect.
quote:
Let's see if he can find some young talent that promises to be much better than average, even if it takes a couple of seasons. |
Well this is what worries me frankly. Some of the Academy lads have been ready for the step up for a while now. I am obviously biased towards the Tigers lads who are ready – Ellis, Smith and Deacon are certainly ready and Skinner should be by next spring – but there are others such as Brown and Forester (if fit) from Glaws *Spit*
But Clive is stubborn – in all likelihood Dally will skipper and the same hopeless mob who failed down south will be thrown back in en masse. The only upside is even he could not ignore another two losses to SH opposition.
quote:
They wouldn't sack him yet. Not in a fit |
Are you absolutely sure?
How about if Italy turn them over?
Lets see if he abandons the flat backline. It does mean admitting he got it wrong you know. He is not known for that kind of humility.
quote:
I can see him arm-in-arm with Tamerlin crooning "Men of Harlech". |
As with Flower of Scotland this hymn is notable for the fact it is mainly about killing the English in as large volumes as possible. Most suitable for rugger.
“Smite with will their savage band Nor think of e'er retreating:
But with a firm unflinching hand, In blood quench ev'ry burning brand,
And for each roof tree cast away A Saxon life shall pay.”
This is clearly inciting the Welsh defence to get red carded quickly?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Holland do have a side – but like Ireland and Scotland it is a sub-county standard outfit. As with Rugby it has no chance of breaking the hold S***** has on the Dutch hearts and minds. |
Stupid lowlanders! And I can say without causing offence because I'm slagging my forefathers!
quote:
Do you think Roe will oust Lyons – the latter was also extremely quiet last weekend? |
Yes, he was, but he wasn't the only one. Roe isn't the giant frame that Lyons is and, as a consequence, he's probably more versatile. The thing is, Lyons, who had a fairly ordinary S12 season, repaid Eddie's loyalty by turning in some terrific games prior to last Saturday. So one poor game won't see him sacked. Roe will probably remain back up #8, capable also of playing as a flanker.
quote:
There are a lot of names in your tour squad that I know nothing about – Croft, Fitter, Mathison, Mitchell and Shepherd for starters. Is Eddie blooding youth? |
Yes, although it's the training squad. The tour squad will be selected from it. David Croft has been around for a while. He's another #8/flanker who has been on the Wallaby bench a few times. Started a World Cup match or two, from memory. Fitter and Mathison are baby props. The search goes on. Mitchell and Shepherd were U-21 Wallabies earlier this year. Mitchell was skipper. Both enormously talented. Mitchell can play anywhere in the backline, had a couple of outstanding games for the Reds this season. Shepherd's a winger/full back, took over full back for the Waratahs when Matt Rogers was injured. He's one of those young, very quick kids with all the skills and tons of confidence. The kind who make you feel very old just looking at them. Anyway, as I've said before, we have no shortage of young backline talent. We have it coming out our ears. Front rowers remain a different matter!
quote:
But Clive is stubborn – in all likelihood Dally will skipper and the same hopeless mob who failed down south will be thrown back in en masse. The only upside is even he could not ignore another two losses to SH opposition. |
A-ha! And the hierarchy couldn't ignore them either. Ta-ta Clive!
quote:
Are you absolutely sure?
How about if Italy turn them over? |
Oh, if he bombs out on the NH tour, that's a different matter. But, at the moment, he's safe. I must check out some of the Kiwi rugby media online, see what's being said.
quote:
“Smite with will their savage band Nor think of e'er retreating:
But with a firm unflinching hand, In blood quench ev'ry burning brand,
And for each roof tree cast away A Saxon life shall pay.” |
That's it. If I close my eyes I can hear Tamerlin's light tenor rippling through the ether.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
16-08-2004 17:59
Never thought we'd have much of a chance winning in SA.
|