09-06-2004 22:39									#1
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Why isn't Mehrtens even on the bench for this game against England? Is Graham Henry getting over-optimistic? Not that Carlos is useless or anything, but Mehrtens seems to be playing better than ever.




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	10-06-2004 03:48									#2
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Sorry guys, no time to catch up with the thread today, I will try to find some time to read Andydog's and Havak's posts tomorrow.

We will soon learn if the Kiwis have managed to find some true forwards.

Last edited by Tamerlin on 12-06-2004 at 07:07

	10-06-2004 05:03									#3
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Back from Paris and the re-burial of the bloody little grenouille prince's heart?

quote: Bledisloe? tests? When did they receive that elevated status? I always thought they were now friendly little games of S12 writ large? I had no idea they gave you guys CAPS for them still - what is the world coming to?

Oh dear, the paroxysms of fear over the forthcoming thumpings have cut off the oxygen supply to the brain.

EDIT. I know none of us like to be reminded of the valuable time we waste solving the problems of the world in our threads, but, since we started these dedicated rugby threads, and up to and including the last post in the just-closed "Swinging Handbags" thread, we have totted up

9, 851

posts.

That amounts to a couple of weeks out of your lives! You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves!

	10-06-2004 05:33									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Why isn't Mehrtens even on the bench for this game against England? Is Graham Henry getting over-optimistic? Not that Carlos is useless or anything, but Mehrtens seems to be playing better than ever.

Who knows? Unfortunately, England isn't going to be a true test of Carlos' redemption. The first Bledisloe will sort things out.

	10-06-2004 12:47									#5
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There is Oxygen missing from a brain - but are you sure it's mine?

Carlos is going to get much more time and space against the Wallaby pack surely? You never did respond to Eddie having to pick a one season greenhorn prop for the squad this year? Then there's his desperate efforts to draft a Fijian (Newcastle are still reporting they expect him to turn up for pre-season in July - which is interesting?)

	10-06-2004 13:11									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Havak There is Oxygen missing from a brain - but are you sure it's mine?

Can't be mine. I don't have one.

quote: Carlos is going to get much more time and space against the Wallaby pack surely?

He didn't in the World Cup, did he.

quote: You never did respond to Eddie having to pick a one season greenhorn prop for the squad this year?

Why should this season be different?

quote: Then there's his desperate efforts to draft a Fijian (Newcastle are still reporting they expect him to turn up for pre-season in July - which is interesting?)

Oh well, Clive drafted an Australian.

	10-06-2004 13:29									#7
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I love my truck, but I don't own a trailer.

	10-06-2004 15:03									#8
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quote: He didn't in the World Cup, did he.

Yes those three games last year were interesting I agree. That impressive AB display in Australia – the muted reply in NZ when your pack started to get in their faces and that semi-final of course – where your forwards got under their skin and starved them of time and space and they had no answer. Couple this with the way they failed to score against 13 men for ten minutes last June and you wonder why Andydog is always so defensive of an area (the forwards) where they clearly have problems.

They cannot afford to let you use the same gameplan. Saturday will tell us what the new look kiwi pack is capable of. Dig at England all you like – it is still a formidable pack we are fielding in terms of sheer power. Meeuws is huge and rated the best Kiwi prop of his generation – and yet White will deliver a scrummaging lesson to him Saturday.

quote: Why should this season be different?

Well there is that.

quote: Oh well, Clive drafted an Australian.

God only knows why – there are plenty of good young flankers who are truly English. He should have taken Will Skinner. Then again at least he isn’t actually playing the Aussie tourist now is he?

Just to re-iterate I expect us to lose Saturdays game because of the difference in the backs – with an honourary mention for Hilly being out of position. We will win the forward battle and will probably therefore have the large majority of possession. The trouble with the ABs is they probably won’t need much ball to score with. Much as I criticise lardy thommo he is more than a match for his opposite number who clearly wished he was a flanker instead – he crops up everywhere on the field but lacks at the core work of a hooker for me. And Rush against Dally – nose is over the hill all right but Rush is quite untested against such experience – lets not confuse the fact he was groomed to take over from Zinzan at the franchise to mean he is as good yet? No arguments with McCaw – he is good (clearly modelling his game on Backy). Jack needs a huge season though if he is to fulfil the potential he clearly has.

Is the wind up pot stirring nicely now? Will Andydog make another appearance to refute my “wild accusations”?

	10-06-2004 18:28									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Havak God only knows why – there are plenty of good young flankers who are truly English. He should have taken Will Skinner. Then again at least he isn’t actually playing the Aussie tourist now is he?

No, and the boy's had a free business-class trip to see his family. Very generous of Clive.

quote: Is the wind up pot stirring nicely now? Will Andydog make another appearance to refute my “wild accusations”?

Well, if you can't get a bite out of him after that lot, mention the NZ s***** team's recent 2 - 4 loss to Vanuatu - Vanuatu!?!, you yelp - and see what happens.

Just finished watching the last ep of "Angels In America". Extraordinary television. Up itself at times, but some staggering performances and a very potent message. Gather it bombed over there. It was put up against that celebrity "Get me out of here" series, whatever it's called.

	10-06-2004 19:10									#10
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quote: Is the wind up pot stirring nicely now? Will Andydog make another appearance to refute my "wild accusations"?

I refute these wild accusations!

quote: We will win the forward battle and will probably therefore have the large majority of possession.

Here’s my take on it:

Woodman v Meeuws, Meeuws more powerful, Woodman faster.
Thompson v Mealamu, Thompson more powerful, Mealamu a little faster
White v Hayman, I’m not sure about these two

Shaw v Jack, Shaw better
Grewcock v Robinson, Grewcock better

Worsley v Gibbes, even
Dallaglio v Rush - Dallaglio better
Hill v McCaw - McCaw better

I would expect our lineout to be better. Also, note that Henry hasn't chosen eight individuals as forwards (as Mitchell did). He's chosen a PACK, and a hungry, balanced and potentially cohesive one at that - with 3 S12 captains - no excuses for non-leadership there methinks.

We have damaging ball carriers in Meuws and Meleamu. We have class in Jack and McCaw. We have Hayman adding grunt to the scrum, Robinson providing lift to the lineout, Rush and Gibbes adding muscle and passion to the breakdown. And best of all – we have the house-of-pain home advantage!

I think that’s a good enough stir of the winding up pot.

As we all agree, Saturday will tell us what the new look AB pack are capable of. But I think that our forwards will do enough to secure platform for a backline with more explosive power, speed and skill than any in the world.

Bring on the World Champions!

	10-06-2004 20:36									#11
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I have never heard of that series Finbar – but that Celebrity jungle nonsense beat everything in the ratings sadly. I think I accidentally caught five seconds of it myself.

I actually agree with large parts of your thinking there Andydog, much as that may surprise you. Certainly as a number 7 I would take McCaw over Hill anyday for Tigers.

But I spotted something this affo that makes me want to stir the wind up pot a little more.

Now you might be thinking Vanuatu?

But I actually prefer this one.

Graham Henry quoted by the BBC today:

“Super 12 is played in summer on hard grounds and it becomes a glorified game of sevens. But when you play in Dunedin in June it's not those conditions, it is a totally different ball game. You can't play that style in international rugby. There has been a drift away from setting the forward platform to play the game, and there has to be a drift back to that if the All Blacks want to be major contenders in the future.”

“We have concentrated on the Jonah Lomu's, the Jeff Wilson's and the Tana Umaga's to do something brilliant to win a game of rugby. We haven't concentrated enough on the efficiency of unit play and individuals to produce a top team.”

"I think that we need to work very closely with the Super 12 coaches and share ideas and expertise. We need to do that so we are all working to the same ends, and maybe giving away a bit of the sevens style of rugby to concentrate on making sure that we've got the basics right.”

“We've got a respect for rugby in Europe, and in particular, a respect for rugby in England. The foundations of the game are particularly strong in the Premiership. It's a huge battle every week in most games, which provides a marvellous foundation for the international team. There is a real good work ethic there, and a professionalism in the game. The quality of the game they are trying to produce - unit skills and individual skills - has a major emphasis, which there hasn't been here”
A good stir this one?

	11-06-2004 06:14									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I have never heard of that series Finbar – but that Celebrity jungle nonsense beat everything in the ratings sadly. I think I accidentally caught five seconds of it myself.

"Angels In America" is a six-hour HBO miniseries based on Tony Kushner's epic play, adapted by him, directed by Mike Nichols. Set in 1985, when AIDS first started to make its mark, it's a massive metaphorical critique of America in the 1980s and Reganism in particular. It will be repeated at some stage.

quote: A good stir this one?

I imagine G. Henry is claiming it as original thought, too.

EDIT. Predictable Wallaby lineup announced to face Scotland. Wendell retains his spot only as a result of the Mortlock/Flatley injury reshuffle. Phil Waugh is stiff, but, again, he lost out in the shuffle to introduce a flanker/lineout jumper. I wouldn't want to be in his way when he runs on as a replacement. Apart from Wendell, David Lyons is perhaps the luckiest inclusion. Queensland's John Roe had a much better S12 season.

	11-06-2004 12:47									#13
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I would think that series is unlikely to be re-aired just at the moment with everyone suddenly looking back at Reaganism through rose tinted glasses.

Fingers crossed that tomorrow brings NZ their fourth loss at Dunedin in 101 years.

You know Wendell could do very well against Scotland – I am not sure they are equipped to deal with a powerful direct runner in their defence. Good to see Tuqiri has not done an Iestyn Harris as well?

So Pug face Waughy is shining pine? Not sure Scotland deserve what they will get when he comes on really?

I had Lyons pegged as a fixture so interesting to see you saying he may not be the form player.

The England A side picked for the Canada game on Sunday is actually quite interesting – the second row consists of Alex Brown from Glaws and Jonno’s protégé Louis Deacon. There is a very real chance over the next few years this will become the senior sides second row combination so it will be good to see how they go.

The bench is also of note as Tigers hooker George Chuter takes his first step towards international rugger. There is also a familiar name on that bench – Johnson. This is Will Johnson, younger brother of Martin. A solid club player he has always just missed out on international recognition (probably as he played blindside mainly until last season and we have them in spades). Since then he has started to play 8 instead and is probably the primary reason Balding was shipped to Gloucester amnd why Will has now got his chance to wear the rose. I wish him well in taking his chance if he gets it. We need a Johnson in an England shirt after all – if only for annoyance value to you Finbar.

	11-06-2004 15:23									#14
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quote: A good stir this one?

not bad, not bad at all. I had seen that actually, and to be honest, I have to agree with Henry on this, as shocking as that may seem. Although I think the term "glorified sevens" is a little extreme - the crusaders have won it for years playing a forwards based percentages game after all.

But here is something that has made my farking day! (link)

quote: New Zealand coach Graham Henry says the All Blacks will put the boot into England in their quest to get quick ball, if the occasion calls for it on Saturday night. Last year, the All Blacks ex-coach John Mitchell banned his players from rucking at the World Cup, because he thought the chance of giving away penalties was too high, but Henry told ONE Sport that no such ban has been put in place this year. And with England's reputation for slowing down ball at the break down, New Zealand's loose forwards may well need to stamp their authority at rucks - figuratively speaking, of course - in the first test at Dunedin. "If rucking is required, there'll be rucking," Henry said. "We haven't put a black line through the word ruck. If the occasion arises, in the modern game there are a lot of mini rucks and mini mauls and I guess both teams will be looking to get quick ball. "But occasionally they'll be bodies in the way and we'll have to drive over and make sure the ball's available. "We'll be talking about those sorts of things; we're looking for a good platform to play an attractive game so we'll be looking for quick ball at the tackle situation."

Whaa hoo! The best news I've had all week. Sharpen those sprigs and get going boys! Giddy up!

	11-06-2004 15:42									#15
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"England's reputation for killing ball"? Have you Kiwis even watched your own team lately?

As for the prospect of NZ rucking that does bother me - your guys seem to think it requires standing on opposition heads IIRC.

	11-06-2004 16:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I would think that series is unlikely to be re-aired just at the moment with everyone suddenly looking back at Reaganism through rose tinted glasses.

Everyone? I put him in the Thatcher category for all-time political a*seholes. This revisionism that's going on - even from his strongest opponents - sickens me. He destroyed a lot of lives.

quote: Fingers crossed that tomorrow brings NZ their fourth loss at Dunedin in 101 years.

Well, for what it's worth, Phil Kearns tips you.

quote: You know Wendell could do very well against Scotland – I am not sure they are equipped to deal with a powerful direct runner in their defence.

Yes, he'll probably score a hatful, unfortunately. He wouldn't be there if Mortlock were fit. Rathbone would be on the wing, Sailor would be out. Still, it will be interesting to see Rathbone where I think he really belongs. He'll feel at home, too - 9, 10 and 12 inside him are all Brumbies.

quote: Good to see Tuqiri has not done an Iestyn Harris as well?

Yes, great news. Even more interesting that he has stuck with the Waratahs. The Brumbies made a big play for him.

quote: So Pug face Waughy is shining pine? Not sure Scotland deserve what they will get when he comes on really?

I think it was a toss up between him and his mate. Smith probably had a stronger second half of the S12, for what that's worth. And Smith has done a bit of lineout jumping.

quote: I had Lyons pegged as a fixture so interesting to see you saying he may not be the form player.

Compared to John Roe's S12 season, he wasn't the form #8. Roe was probably the Reds' best for the season. He's not the man mountain Lyons is, but tough and mobile. I think Eddie stuck with Lyons after his good World Cup form. The final aside. I'm not really complaining. I think Lyons has a big future providing he keeps up his work rate and concentrates.

quote: This is Will Johnson, younger brother of Martin. A solid club player he has always just missed out on international recognition (probably as he played blindside mainly until last season and we have them in spades). Since then he has started to play 8 instead and is probably the primary reason Balding was shipped to Gloucester amnd why Will has now got his chance to wear the rose. I wish him well in taking his chance if he gets it. We need a Johnson in an England shirt after all – if only for annoyance value to you Finbar.

How old is he? Does he have a future beyond the A team? I won't ask about his jawline!

	11-06-2004 16:51									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Havak "England's reputation for killing ball"?

Back's and J****'s retirements will have put a dent in England's ability to kill the ball. Still, I suppose they will have groomed someone else.

	11-06-2004 17:30									#18
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Phil Kearns tips us? The lad who sells himself on the speaker circuit as being ‘Universally acknowledged as the worlds best hooker’? I’m not sure how to take that.

It’s nice to be underdogs though – what with kiwis thinking they will ruck us out the game.

So Mr Rathbone, Bok U-21 captain, makes his Wallaby debut at last. Shame it’s against such weak oppo?

quote: And Smith has done a bit of lineout jumping.

This might be key. It is one area of Scotlands game that works – and works well at that.

quote: The final aside. I'm not really complaining

There was nothing wrong with the final that I can recall?

Will Johnson is 30 – and realistically has slim prospects beyond the A squad for that reason.

And I admit again our forwards are adept at killing ball – Woodman and Dallaglio are masters of it – but 1-8 they know their job. I just wonder if the Kiwi fans do watch their own teams – I’ve never seen anyone as close to Backy in the skill as Kronfeld was – and McCaw is not far adrift, neither was the previous skipper. Even the highly rated Chris Jack lies all over ball when it suits the team. Kiliing ball is all part of the game – it just so happens the 2003 England squad were better at it than their SH rivals. Oh and we never gave up rucking.

	12-06-2004 07:21									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Phil Kearns tips us? The lad who sells himself on the speaker circuit as being ‘Universally acknowledged as the worlds best hooker’? I’m not sure how to take that.

He said he thought you'd win it in the forwards. By the time you read this, of course, he will have been proved right or wrong. That aside, Mr Kearns is one of the few truly genuine wits to come out of rugby. As his onfield career recedes into history, thus his talents are monumentally magnified. He is, also, the chap who did the TV ad in NZ in which he walked down the street hand in hand with Fitzy. There should be more Phil Kearnses in the world.

quote: So Mr Rathbone, Bok U-21 captain, makes his Wallaby debut at last. Shame it’s against such weak oppo?

Yep. If their defence is as crap as they say, he should have a picnic. He's a very strong runner. But who knows? Their forwards might upset everything.

quote: This might be key. It is one area of Scotlands game that works – and works well at that.

Yes, forwards and lineouts seem to be the strengths. But nothing much beyond #12. We shall see.

quote: There was nothing wrong with the final that I can recall?

quote: Will Johnson is 30 – and realistically has slim prospects beyond the A squad for that reason.

So what's he doing there? Why not an up and comer?

quote: And I admit again our forwards are adept at killing ball – Woodman and Dallaglio are masters of it – but 1-8 they know their job. I just wonder if the Kiwi fans do watch their own teams – I’ve never seen anyone as close to Backy in the skill as Kronfeld was – and McCaw is not far adrift, neither was the previous skipper. Even the highly rated Chris Jack lies all over ball when it suits the team. Kiliing ball is all part of the game – it just so happens the 2003 England squad were better at it than their SH rivals. Oh and we never gave up rucking.

Not only do you do it better, you do it more often. It's a fundamental part of your strategy.

	12-06-2004 15:43									#20
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NZ 36-3 ENG



Let the world witness the power of our forwards.

NZ were too solid and too committed up front, and way, way too fast out back for the World Champions. The AB scrum held its own and even managed to push the English pack around. Lots of biffo to at the start to sort out what’s what, just what the doctor ordered. Jonno Gibbes was a stand out taking lineout ball at will and quick to the breakdown. Rocokoco played well as did Mealamu whose throwing started off a little shaky but was quickly corrected. Robinson had an outstanding game and added the mongrel element to the AB pack that has been missing for a long while. McCaw pure class as always, wise of Henry to ease him into captaincy not putting too much pressure on him.

The English seem to have lost cohesiveness in their pack - it really looks like the Martin Johnson factor is sorely missed ala Fitzpatrick in 98. Not to mention Jonny's tactical nous which really was the deciding factor.

That said, the NZ forwards were clearly on top and our set piece was fantastic. Great lineouts, the lifiting from Hayman was class. I think the Spencer/Marshall combo looks a bit out of sorts at times and Marshall did a bit of crabbing.

I expect England will improve 100% for the next game. I don't think Hodgson will start next week his kicking was extremely poor imho.

	12-06-2004 15:54									#21
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All Blacks 36 -d- England 3

Mmmm. England were slow, leaderless, bereft of ideas (apart from kicking the ball away) when they actually controlled the ball, the one-on-one defence was crap, and the vaunted forwards were remarkably average. I haven't seen so many England mauls stall - or be pushed backwards - in a long time. Simpson-Daniel should be banished back where he came from and taught how to tackle, as should Hodgson, who seems as timid a #10 as I've seen in a while. And Thompson should be banished back where he came from and taught how to throw to his jumpers. Dawson also had a shocker. To be charitable, he looked rusty. The Kiwi back row made the England back row look old, slow and lazy. S.O.S J****.

	12-06-2004 15:58									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog The English seem to have lost cohesiveness in their pack - it really looks like the Martin Johnson factor is sorely missed ala Fitzpatrick in 98.

Yes, and his leadership.

quote: Not to mention Jonny's tactical nous which really was the deciding factor.

Sorry. You outplayed them all over the paddock.

	13-06-2004 02:20									#23
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I just came back from Toulouse this morning. Glad to say we bet the Airbus team. I managed to play very little since I ripped an ear and it bled a bit.
I heard that the Stade Toulousain would try to win their match against the Stade Francais, so Tamerlin's bet that they play to win seems good.
I must say that, although my visit to Toulouse was very pleasant (can't remember the name of the restaurant, le cos d'oc or something like that), the city of Toulouse itself seemed very ugly to me. A hotel worse than anything I ever saw, a canal with whores on the borders just every other meter. And the first toulousain we saw was crossing the same canal with an anti pollution facemask, and the night-club we went to was rather bad...
But the guys there were cool, the field a very good pitch, and the restaurant great. The hooker against whom I played was a nice guy too. Great place for rugby.

	13-06-2004 06:57									#24
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare I just came back from Toulouse this morning. Glad to say we bet the Airbus team. I managed to play very little since I ripped an ear and it bled a bit.

He says blithely. Watch out for cauliflowers!

quote: A hotel worse than anything I ever saw, a canal with whores on the borders just every other meter. And the first toulousain we saw was crossing the same canal with an anti pollution facemask, and the night-club we went to was rather bad...

Presumably a part of the city to which Tamerlin has never been.

quote: But the guys there were cool, the field a very good pitch, and the restaurant great. The hooker against whom I played was a nice guy too. Great place for rugby.

That's why Tamerlin lives there!

	13-06-2004 07:07									#25
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Boks 31 -d- Ireland 17

I watched the first half and ten minutes of the second half before sleep smashed me over the head. What I saw was entertaining. It always struck me, though, that Ireland seemed to have a tad more class, that they genuinely threatened more than the Boks did. I have no idea what happened in the rest of the second half. Damn sleep!

And, reflecting overnight on the All Blacks-England match, it occurred to me that England's plight very much reflected a more extreme version of what happened in the early rounds of the World Cup. They were outplayed - on the back foot and struggling. In the early rounds of the World Cup, however, they came back to win via (a) regrouping; and (b) their opponents' inability to (i) maintain their pressure and (ii) deliver killer blows. I can't help but conclude that J**** wouldn't have let yesterday happen as it did. I don't think England would have won under him, but I think the circumstances would have been different.

	13-06-2004 13:03									#26
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Wallabies 35 -d- Scotland 15

Typical Wallaby early-season, rusty, sputtering effort against an immensely courageous, swarming Scotland defence. The dam broke late in the second half when the Scotland defence tired and the Wallaby machine clicked. Scotland only threatened the try line a couple of times and let themselves down with bad handling at crucial times. Yet again, our scrum was pushed around, but why should this season be different? Great debut from Rathbone, Samo worked hard and provided the vital extra lineout option, and Plank's work around the paddock was terrific. Phil Waugh's work when he came on midway through the second half made George Smith's earlier effort look a tad lacklustre. But - oh dear - the Wallaby pack ...

	13-06-2004 17:49									#27
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Presumably a part of the city to which Tamerlin has never been.

A friend of mine is living around here.

Certainly not one of the beautiful parts of the town, fortunately the city of Toulouse can not be compared with this place. The pretty parts of the town, and they are many, are at the opposite.

quote: That's why Tamerlin lives there!

Not the only reason why.

About the Stade Toulousain, well... I won't reval the score as I am too ashamed of it. The Toulousains certainly didn't come in Paris to win. At least I hope so...

The semi-finals will be:

Stade Toulousain - vs - Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan

Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu - vs - Stade Français

	13-06-2004 19:12									#28
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Well so much for the great England forward pack. Their rolling mauls went no-where, and even their scrum was turned.

This was definitely a positive start for NZ, but as Finbar already pointed out, the real test will come when the Tri-Nations start.

It was also great to see Nick Evans and Sam Tuitupou get a good 15 minutes in their first test match. Tuitupou is one of my favorite players, and Nick Evans also looks like a very exciting player.

	13-06-2004 19:15									#29
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Boks 31 -d- Ireland 17 I watched the first half and ten minutes of the second half before sleep smashed me over the head. What I saw was entertaining.

Damn! I didn't want to know that result yet...oh well, if what you saw was entertaining then I suppose I'll watch it anyway.

	14-06-2004 07:18									#30
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The Negatives

1. Dunedin. Say no more.

2. This morning I woke at 5 o'clock and couldn't get back to sleep. I knew the England -v- France s***** match was on in the Euro-whatever-it-is competition. I turned on the TV. Well into the second half, England were leading 1-0, the French were swarming, but the England defence was coping relatively comfortably. On one of their rare journeys forward, an England player was fouled in the penalty box. Up steps Mr Posh Spice to take the kick. The grenouille goalie saves it. Oh well, not to worry, it's still 1-0 and the defence is holding up well. Full time approaches, and les grenouilles earn a free kick outside the penalty box. Turns out to be a corker, over the wall, curling, leaving the England goalie stranded. Oh well, 1-1 in injury time, think England. A win would have been nice but it's only the first round, a draw will do. Twenty seconds later, an England defender passes the ball back to his goalie. Without really looking. He slots it straight into the path of a grenouille. The England goalie charges off his line and fouls the grenouille in the penalty box. Penalty! The penalty is slotted home easily, injury time runs out, the whistle blows, and England have gone from leading 1-0 to losing 1-2 virtually in injury time.

3. The England U21 rugby team were put to the sword by the All Blacks U21 team.

The Positive

There was one? Yes, there was. Providing England wants to claim a Welshman as one of its own. Which, the way they're going, wouldn't be a bad tactic. Welshman Huw Lobb, 27, made history when he became the first man to win Britain's annual man -v- horse marathon over 35km over countryside and moorland in mid-Wales.

Clive and Sven are, no doubt, on the phone to Huw as I type. Clive might even be on the phone to the horse. Apparently the neddy can tackle.