10-06-2004 21:19									#1
	No Child Left Behind in Philly School District Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

the results came out and even with the supposed
dramatic improvement, the scores are still abysmally low. all philly scores are from the public school district.


percent proficient of advanced in 5th grade
math- 23.1% (philly) 56.3% (pa)
reading- 22.8% (philly) 58% (pa)

in 11th grade
math- 21.6 (philly) 49.1 (pa)
reading- 30.1 (philly) 59.1 (pa)

when you examine it racially (all grades) in philly... math then reading

asian 50.3 43.3
white 42.4 49.6
hispanic 16.8 19.6
black 15.1 22.4
english language learners 20.0 12.0

graduation rates... 60.5 (philly) 86.4 (pa)

when it comes to teachers. the percentage of those considered highly qualified (is fully certified, has a bachelor's degree, has completed a content area major, and must have passed a content area test) is 90.4% in philly, 97% in pa.

my question is what can be done to improve these scores if teachers (which are apparently just as qualified in philly as in the rest of pa) are not to blame. and whites and asians in the public school system scored over twice as high as hispanics and blacks.

	10-06-2004 21:22									#2
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americans believe in social dwarvinism. so if u're poor it's because u're stupid according to them

	10-06-2004 21:23									#3
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that's real;ly high compared to my school district

Jon miller

	10-06-2004 21:26									#4
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Get rid of the sports programs.

Granted it encourages team play, health, competition, etc. Yet, this is something that can be done through gym and through academic challenges.

The problem with sports in intercity HS is that many of the children there feel (due to their society) that becoming a professional or proficient athelete is the only way they will ever get into college or make money. THus, they ignore the education taht they are actually there to receive and either cause problems during classes making it harder on those who are there to learn or just do nothing. Also, those who try to become these atheletes but fall short earn a mental stigma that labels themselves as losers. This self image is then reflect not only on their classes, but also their social behavior.

I hate to suggest it as I love sports, played them in HS (even though I suked), and enjoyed going to games in HS. However, I don't feel that a institution of learning should be a breading ground for atheletes, and that is what they have become. Especially in places like Philly.

	10-06-2004 21:30									#5
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Japher:

basketball scholarships remain one of the primary ways inner-city guys manage to get into college. by cutting sports like that, you'll be preventing a fair amount of guys from going on to college.

	10-06-2004 21:32									#6
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quote: by cutting sports like that, you'll be preventing a fair amount of guys from going on to college.

It's thinking like that which is the problem.

Are you saying that those guys are too stupid to get into college without a basketball scholarship?

	10-06-2004 21:33									#7
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one odd thing about the philly stats is that the math scores for 11th grade have dropped 2% since last year

	10-06-2004 21:34									#8
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Japher:

perchance... the thing is though, they need to get into college. once in it, they'll buckle down and learn things. it's just they need to get in first.

	10-06-2004 21:36									#9
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I don't know the situation, so I couldn't tell how to change it.

But I'd suppose the main reasons behind failure at school in Philly's case are:

- bad working conditions out of school: crowded/noisy housing, families not emphasizing the importance of education, unhealthy lifestyles etc.
- bad working conditions at school: crowded classes, unsafety, lack of following by the teachers.
- (for the older highschoolers): insufficient hopes of bettering one's condition through education, temptation to look for non-academic forms of making money.

	10-06-2004 21:43									#10
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quote: the thing is though, they need to get into college. once in it, they'll buckle down and learn things.

Really? What makes you think that? If they can't pass 11th grade math which is basic arithmatetic, then what is to say they will do well in college? That is a BS excuse. If they are too dumb and proud to learn in HS chances are they are making it more difficult on those around them, not to mention that there lack of desire to learn brings those scores down... and that is the matter of discussion here.

It is not just the notion that HS=basketball=scholarship to college that is the problem, it's the whole mind set that this stems from. It's the something for nothing, at least not brains. If a whole society is via'ing for that scholarship, or relying on it, what happens when they don't get it? What happens to those who don't even make varsity? What has that done to ther status in this society that worships atheletes? What will that do to their self image?

A lack of respect for education in exchange for a greater respect for atheltic performance gets you those lower percentages, it gets you a town full of disgruntled never has beens, and it gets you a town full of people who are ashamed of who they are and therefor have no respect for the socitey that betrayed them.

Society should encourage their children to become the owner of a sports team, instead of a player for one. I know that I, for one, would rather be writting the checks then collecting them.

	10-06-2004 22:30									#11
	Re: No Child Left Behind in Philly School District Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer my question is what can be done to improve these scores if teachers (which are apparently just as qualified in philly as in the rest of pa) are not to blame. and whites and asians in the public school system scored over twice as high as hispanics and blacks.

Parents are a very important component of a child's education. They need to encourage scholastic achievement in their kids and they need to be able to help out with the homework/check math answers/whatever.

Children raised by people who never got the chains of illiteracy off all the way are unlikely to unchain themselves.

	10-06-2004 22:57									#12
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For the record, in 2002, Pennsylvania returned nearly 3.5 million dollars in federal funding (for education) back to the govt.

	10-06-2004 22:58									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Japher: perchance... the thing is though, they need to get into college. once in it, they'll buckle down and learn things. it's just they need to get in first.

BS. They have people take care of their classes for them.

	10-06-2004 22:59									#14
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quote: Japher: perchance... the thing is though, they need to get into college. once in it, they'll buckle down and learn things. it's just they need to get in first.

	10-06-2004 23:04									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Get rid of the sports programs.

Yeah ok . Let's just screw poor school districts even more and get rid of their sports.

If anything, sports is the ONLY hope that many of these kids have for discipline and accountibility because they're not getting it from home or from regular school.

	10-06-2004 23:06									#16
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What don't you people get it, we HAVE to have shitty schools to keep the poor, poor and provide a working class to serve the rest? Any attempted improvements is just spitting in the wind.

	10-06-2004 23:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 americans believe in social dwarvinism

Does that mean you have to be really short to be able to get along with people?

	10-06-2004 23:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Yeah ok . Let's just screw poor school districts even more and get rid of their sports. If anything, sports is the ONLY hope that many of these kids have for discipline and accountibility because they're not getting it from home or from regular school.

No, get rid of school sports programs for every district in the country. Taxpayers should not support a bloated mini-NFL.

Instead, districts should maintain a limited athletics program, one that fulfills the necessities of a physical education class, one that can get students active in sports and physical activities. Then, divert the rest of the money to academic programs, to providing districts with the needed textbooks, computers and supplies.

EDIT: If the local city/district populations wanted a football/bastketball/whatever program, they could have it. But the excessive athletic programs should not receive state and federal funding.

	10-06-2004 23:10									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn What don't you people get it, we HAVE to have shitty schools to keep the poor, poor and provide a working class to serve the rest? Any attempted improvements is just spitting in the wind.

Does this kind of nonsense serve any real purpose?

	10-06-2004 23:15									#20
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No but it is the truth. "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

Verto's Idea of textbooks: Bibles and Christian Readers...

	10-06-2004 23:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Verto No, get rid of school sports programs for every district in the country. Taxpayers should not support a bloated mini-NFL.

Taxpayers don't "support a bloated mini-NFL" anymore than they support a bloated chess club or a bloated language club.

And under most circumstances, athletic programs are incredibly strapped for cash, and have to conduct a lot of fundraising outside of the normal school funding structure.

Kids who participate in sports are more disciplined with their time and studies, more confident, and have better life skills in general. It would be a disaster to take that away, especially in poor districts.

	10-06-2004 23:18									#22
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quote: If anything, sports is the ONLY hope that many of these kids have for discipline and accountibility because they're not getting it from home or from regular school.

I've been on both sides, active in sports and one of the top students.

Discipline is important, and the academics ought to be stressed alongside the sports.

	10-06-2004 23:19									#23
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quote: Verto's Idea of textbooks: Bibles and Christian Readers...

You left out the Commentaries.

	10-06-2004 23:19									#24
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Yeah I know a school district near me that has the Mentally Disadvantaged or even those with Learning disordered bake things to pay for the sports teams... that school should be ripe for a sueing.

	10-06-2004 23:20									#25
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quote: that school should be ripe for a sueing.

On what grounds?

	10-06-2004 23:21									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Thorn No but it is the truth. "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" Verto's Idea of textbooks: Bibles and Christian Readers...

If you are going to troll, at least troll accurately. So piss off.

	10-06-2004 23:21									#27
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Discrimination against people with Disabilities, you know I think there was some act by Congress that said you couldn't do that....

	10-06-2004 23:24									#28
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Oh did I forget to mention the baking is not Voluntary.

	10-06-2004 23:25									#29
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quote: Discrimination against people with Disabilities, you know I think there was some act by Congress that said you couldn't do that....

And what if they like baking?

quote: Oh did I forget to mention the baking is not Voluntary.

How so?

	10-06-2004 23:25									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Taxpayers don't "support a bloated mini-NFL" anymore than they support a bloated chess club or a bloated language club. And under most circumstances, athletic programs are incredibly strapped for cash, and have to conduct a lot of fundraising outside of the normal school funding structure. Kids who participate in sports are more disciplined with their time and studies, more confident, and have better life skills in general. It would be a disaster to take that away, especially in poor districts.

Are you joking? The local district here pays the head coaches at the two high schools 80,000 a year, individually. One high school I know has 14 coaches, for football alone. They are finishing up a high school football stadium that cost several millions of dollars. This is because the new stadium built at the local high school is no longer suitable in it's accomodations.

The football teams are transported on Greyhound buses to their football games, after being treated to a meal at a local restaurant.

I would say close to 30% of all athletes pass their classes only because their failure would render them unable to play in the next game. Not to mention that the heavy weight lifting that football athletes commonly perform is extremely dangerous to their bodies.

School fundraising is another thing that needs to be reformed.