14-06-2004 20:41									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin They should just charge him with the easiest case first but leave open the option to tack on more charges later. BTW When exactly was the Nurmingburg trial in relation to the occupation of Germany? As I recall Germany was occupied for something like four years.

Started in 1947, IIRC, although there were earlier trials elsewhere. Nürnberg was just for the biggest fish.

	14-06-2004 20:41									#32
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quote: So, just charge him, then set a date for trial a little ways out, so any necessary evidence can be, er, um, "produced" and make sure the jury is half Kurd and half Shiite.

I don't think we should charge him. What if we never find enough evidence for an airtight case and he ends up pulling a Slobo? We should just turn him over to the tender mercies of the Iraqi transitional government on June 30th and let them take care of things.

That's probably in violation of international law, though.

	14-06-2004 20:48									#33
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Let him loose but forbid him from leaving Texas

In all seriousness the IRC is being pedantic here. I think in a case like this the USA should have at least another six months.

	14-06-2004 20:49									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I don't think we should charge him. What if we never find enough evidence for an airtight case and he ends up pulling a Slobo? We should just turn him over to the tender mercies of the Iraqi transitional government on June 30th and let them take care of things. That's probably in violation of international law, though.

That's why I said "produced." All we need to do is go through the motions. Unlike Slobo, Saddam doesn't have many supporters around.

	14-06-2004 20:56									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Winston If they release him, they just have to make sure it happens in the right neighbourhood. Then it shouldn't be a problem.

	14-06-2004 20:58									#36
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As much as Saddam deserves punishment, I don't want the U.S. government "producing" anything to convict him. I'd rather they take their time and charge him when they have a good case, or turn him over to the Iraqis and let them do all the "producing".

	14-06-2004 20:58									#37
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If we're going to start acting like the people we replaced, what was the point in replacing them? How do you justify overthrowing someone for violating international law, and then violate international law yourself?

	14-06-2004 21:03									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten As much as Saddam deserves punishment, I don't want the U.S. government "producing" anything to convict him. I'd rather they take their time and charge him when they have a good case, or turn him over to the Iraqis and let them do all the "producing".

Bah, the US Government's makes up crap all the time to convict people and justify power plays. It's nothing out of the ordinary for them.

	14-06-2004 21:09									#39
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quote: If we're going to start acting like the people we replaced, what was the point in replacing them? How do you justify overthrowing someone for violating international law, and then violate international law yourself?

Comparing this "violation" of international law with the violations of international law commited by Saddam Hussein is monumentally idiotic (and that's being kind).

	14-06-2004 21:11									#40
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"Comparing this "violation" of international law with the violations of international law commited by Saddam Hussein is monumentally idiotic (and that's being kind)."

This is chegitz though.

Anything France doesn't want to happen is self-evidently immoral.

	14-06-2004 21:12									#41
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quote: This is chegitz though.

I didn't say it was surprising, did I?

	14-06-2004 21:14									#42
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Bah, seeing the Iraquis claim things have taken a turn for the worse, why not just put him back into power and get it over with.

	14-06-2004 21:15									#43
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quote: "Comparing this "violation" of international law with the violations of international law commited by Saddam Hussein is monumentally idiotic (and that's being kind)."

i would like it if those people who ***** about moral relativism (not you, drake... but those who are often conservative) would stop justifying their misdeeds or supporting misdeeds committed by their "side" by saying that what the other, "evil" people did was so much worse.

their sins do not somehow make your sins any less a sin.

	14-06-2004 21:22									#44
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True Q, pointing to the other side to justify your actions doesn't work.

	14-06-2004 21:26									#45
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I wasn't justifying it based on Saddam's actions. I was just pointing out that saying that the U.S. is "acting like the people we replaced" is moronic.

I have completely different reasons for justifying this action by the United States.

	14-06-2004 22:21									#46
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Park, you're so deep in the closet you're finding Christmas presents.

---

Just do it, USA. It's not like we don't have any case at all against Saddam. Even if he destroyed a couple thousand records, hell, Enron did that, and we still...maybe got one of them...well, that was because they were rich. Saddam isn't rich, so no evidence isn't a problem.

	14-06-2004 22:29									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I wasn't justifying it based on Saddam's actions. I was just pointing out that saying that the U.S. is "acting like the people we replaced" is moronic.

Says the person who says we should forgo evidence and a trial and just murder the guy. Sounds suspiciously like someone else . . . oh yeah, Saddam!

	14-06-2004 22:30									#48
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Isn't the case and charges to be handled by the provisional Iraqi government? As it does not yet exist until the end of the month, wtf are we to do with Saddaam in the meanwhile, release him?

Seems to me the IRC has targetted the wrong organization for failure to meet due process. While the US may have apprehended him and could if it wanted to press charges it has been stated many times over that he will be tried for crimes against teh Iraqi people by the Iraqi people. Until such time as a governement exists how can this actually happen?

This is not a US issue. As normal this stinks of anti-US bullsh1t.

	14-06-2004 22:33									#49
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quote: Says the person who says we should forgo evidence and a trial and just murder the guy.

I never said that. I prefer that we torture him for many, many years. Rough torture, too, not this ***** chem light up the bum ****. Making him read your posts and only your posts for the next several years would be a good start...

	14-06-2004 22:33									#50
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On June 30, the U.S. occupation formally ends. That means the U.S. has to release all P.O.W.s. Doesn't mean we have to let them go. We could release him into the custody of the Iraqis.

Why get so freakin pissed you miss the obvious?

	14-06-2004 22:34									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Says the person who says we should forgo evidence and a trial and just murder the guy. I never said that.

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I'm pro releasing him to a certain death in a place like Halabja or Basra, . . .

Murder by proxy.

	14-06-2004 22:40									#52
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No it isn't. It's malign neglect.

	14-06-2004 22:41									#53
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It would still get you a murder conviction.

	14-06-2004 22:42									#54
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Yeah, it sure would...

	14-06-2004 22:44									#55
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Thowing someone to a mob with murder in its hearts is the same as throwing someone to chummed sharks. It's depraved indifference.

	14-06-2004 22:46									#56
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Malign neglect is what the park rangers tried to do to me and Theben and our friend when they dropped us off at our car but took the car keys and hinted that we might be visited by "night riders" . . . had some actually shown up.

	14-06-2004 22:46									#57
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It's not murder, though.

	14-06-2004 22:46									#58
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Depreaved indifference is murder 2.

	14-06-2004 22:48									#59
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I guess it ain't depraved indifference then, since it sure as hell ain't murder.

	14-06-2004 22:52									#60
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara On June 30, the U.S. occupation formally ends. That means the U.S. has to release all P.O.W.s. Doesn't mean we have to let them go. We could release him into the custody of the Iraqis. Why get so freakin pissed you miss the obvious?

If this was directed at me, the point being the US should not be targeted by this missive of the IRC. It is a matter for the Iraqi Provisional gov. It is not for the US to charge him with anything, that is for the Iraqi Provisional Government.

Since it has been stated on numerous occasions that Sadaam is to be turned over to the Iraqis this is simply an attempt via someone at the IRC with an antiUS axe to grind to paint the US as a rogue state.