15-06-2004 05:38									#1
	Jane PBEM Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Welcome to Jane PBEM!

The theme of this game was inspired by Sir Ralph's Tarzan PBEM.

The idea here is to make terrain a much bigger part of the game than it is in stock Civ3. Thus the following game modifications will be in effect:

Mods:

Cities

1. Cities cannot be founded on Forest, Jungle, Hills, or Desert tiles.
(2. In other words, cities can only be founded on Bonus Grassland, Flood Plains, Grassland or Plains.)

Workers

3. The Chop Forest, Clear Jungle and Clear Wetlands Worker actions are pushed back to Engineering.
4. The Chop Forest, Clear Jungle and Clear Wetlands Worker actions all require a base 24 turns to complete.
5. The Plant Forest Worker action is pushed back Ecology.

Military

5. All mounted units (including Samurai) are Wheeled.
6. All bombard units are Wheeled.
7. Tanks, Panzers, Modern Armer, Mechanized Infantry and Mobile SAMs are Wheeled.
8. Forest is impassable to Wheeled units.
(9. Thus only Infantry-type units can enter "bumpy" terrain without the help of Roads.)

All other rules are stock C3C (latest patch).

---

Game Settings:

Age: 3 billion years
Climate and Temperature: Wet/Warm or Arid/Cold
Land Form: Pangea
Size: Standard

Barbarians: Raging

Difficulty: Emperor

---

Players:

Aqualung71
Beta
Dominae
ducki
snoopy369
vovan

Although the roster is currently full, the game has not started yet, so keep checking in here in case someone leaves.

Last edited by Dominae on 16-06-2004 at 08:03

	15-06-2004 05:44									#2
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Please post here to confirm your participation if your name is in the list above.

Please do not sign up for this game if you cannot play one turn per day on average. I'm really not interested in another failed PBEM. There's no need to be strict about this, as long as everyone makes a true commitment right from the start. If you leave the game it is your responsibility to find a permanent replacement.

Note that the settings, mods, etc. above are still up for discussion. Furthermore, we need to decide on:

1. Restarts: none, one, get someone to check the map?
2. Civs: self-selected, random, semi-random?
3. Exploits: let's agree on all this before we start.

	15-06-2004 05:50									#3
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Mind if I join you there? I have yet to complete a PBEM game (three in progress), but I'm pretty sure I've gotten into the swing of it. And this sounds like something different and cool, so.

And I have enough time on my hands now to do a couple turns a day if it gets to it.

	15-06-2004 05:57									#4
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vovan: welcome!

I've never met you before, but you sound keen so that's good enough for me. I'm signing you up.

	15-06-2004 06:02									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Note that the settings, mods, etc. above are still up for discussion. Furthermore, we need to decide on: 1. Restarts: none, one, get someone to check the map? 2. Civs: self-selected, random, semi-random? 3. Exploits: let's agree on all this before we start.

Jane....nice name, appropriate

My thoughts:

1. No restarts - let's tough it out!
2. Civs random - play your allocated civ to the best of your ability
3. Exploits - use the etiquette list we're using for the Iron Civers tournament.

If all else fails, use your start location or civ as an excuse!

On settings - with the settlement restrictions, a 3 billion year old map could be particularly nasty - so let's go with that! Wet/Warm would probably give less settlement areas due to jungles, while Arid/Cold may give unfair advantages to Agricultural civs due to more deserts (?) I'd prefer Wet/Warm.

Should we start with 2 settlers, or at least an extra worker?

If we only have 5 players, we may want to drop to a small map.

My best play times will be (at the moment anyway) GMT11 - GMT16, which is evening my time.

	15-06-2004 06:55									#6
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I'd go for some sort of restart option, given how tough it would be to start in a jungly area. I'm all for doing my best with what i get, but if I start in an area with 5 grassland and all the rest jungle (like I have before) i'm definitely not going to have a chance at winning (unless I have a seafaring Byzantine civ ... ).

I'd vote for wet/warm I suppose, 4 billion or 3 billion years. I'd personally prefer restless rather than raging barbs, but at emperor level the goody huts will be mostly barbs anyways ... so it probably doesn't matter. More settlers sound ok, or just one, no need to get fancy.
We might want to consider slightly modding tech rate, given that smaller cities = less trade = slower game with the same tech rate. (And we will have smaller cities, i have no doubt, with terrain restrictions as they are)...

	15-06-2004 06:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae 5. All mounted units (including Samurai) are Wheeled. 6. Mobile SAM is wheeled

Don't forget to make Tanks et cetera wheeled. They are not mentioned in the Tarzan thread because we are using the AU mod as a basis.

	15-06-2004 07:14									#8
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I'm in. And I like Aqualung's suggestions of no restart (play it as it comes) and random civs (play what you get).

Sounds great. Let's go Jane!!!!!

	15-06-2004 07:30									#9
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Ah, thanks, Dominae.

FWIW, here's what I think on the points you raise:

1. Restarts: none, one, get someone to check the map?

I'd say get someone to check the map. I wouldn't want to restart, and yet, I wouldn't want to get stuck on three tiles of grasslands surrounded by jungle. So, I'd say have someone make a few random maps and check em out, choose one with tolerable starting positions, and then hand it to us.


2. Civs: self-selected, random, semi-random?

I'm not sure what semi-random means? Like the players would choose a trait they want their civ to necessarily have and then get one of those that have it? I'd say to purely random though.


3. Exploits: let's agree on all this before we start.

Seems to me like the Iron-Civers list is one pretty well established? So why not just go with it.

As for world settings - whatever you toss my way will be good.

	15-06-2004 07:54									#10
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quote: Originally posted by alexman Don't forget to make Tanks et cetera wheeled. They are not mentioned in the Tarzan thread because we are using the AU mod as a basis.

Ah, yes, thanks.

As for balanced starts: how about we just get someone from the Tarzan game to check out the starting locations? If there's any major imbalance he/she can just reload another map.

	15-06-2004 08:04									#11
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Nevermind (it seems it's been a long time since I've played!).

	15-06-2004 09:41									#12
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I'd agree with a start check by a Tarzanian, since you're doing the same thing for them anyhow they owe us one

	15-06-2004 20:05									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae 1. Restarts: none, one, get someone to check the map? 2. Civs: self-selected, random, semi-random? 3. Exploits: let's agree on all this before we start.

1. I'd say - if we don't have the map checked, a 2nd turn restart on 2 conditions.
-a)you have NOT settled your capitol
-b)you will NOT be able to settle your capitol until turn 5.

a) is self explanatory. b) does NOT mean you don't see a spot you LIKE, rather that there is no place where you are ABLE to settle within the first 5 turns - 4 moves + settle - I think visibility allows for this, no?
I'd like the map-checker to probably go by this criteria, too. We don't all need equal, lovely starts, but we do need to be able to settle "soon" and have enough growth to build a settler.

2. random

3. I haven't looked at IC, but I trust you guys.

On the map, 3b, climate whatever, Standard size - otherwise, won't we run into a lack of patchy/uninhabitable land? Barbarians - never played Raging, so this should be fun. I already avoid huts on Emperor except for very rare occasions. Pangea or continents? This one's probably as important as any of the others. I want to say Continents, but I imagine everyone else will say Pangea, so whatever is good.

This sounds like fun, and I definitely like the name. I laughed out loud.

	15-06-2004 20:18									#14
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I can check your map, if you want. You just should tell me what you want to have checked. What I would propose, is:

I will:
- make sure, nobody starts on an island or a very small peninsula
- make sure, everybody has a patch of fertile land for at least 3 size-12 cities. That means enough grassland or easily irrigatable plains.

I will not:
- balance out strategic, luxury and bonus (especially food!) resources.

	15-06-2004 21:09									#15
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Sounds great, thanks Sir Ralph!

Just to make sure: please do not assign starting locations, but let the game do it; no favoritism (or anti-favoritism)!

	16-06-2004 00:19									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ducki This sounds like fun, and I definitely like the name. I laughed out loud.

Me too, had to check this out, even i'm not playing
Again great fun just by looking at PBEM game names Tarzan and Jane PBEM's one after another.

	16-06-2004 07:17									#17
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Conqueror, care to be our reserve in case someone drops out before we get started?

	18-06-2004 09:48									#18
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Ok, the Tarzan game just started, so ours should too.

Everyone still in?

I'll create the scenario file tomorrow and send it on over to Sir Ralph. We should begin soon after.

	18-06-2004 17:06									#19
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yup - ready and waiting, sir!

	18-06-2004 19:37									#20
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Absolutely. We need to get a fast start so we can crush Tarzan into a tree where he belongs.

	19-06-2004 06:04									#21
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Aqualung71, ducki, vovan?

Ok, I'm making the scenario now, and there's something I think we should work out together:

I've given the Wheeled ability to all units that require Horses to build (note: this does not include Samurai and War Elephants) except the Conquistador; I feel it would ruin the unit if it could only run along flat land and Hills. Now, I feel this introduces a problem for the Keshik: since it's ability is to ignore movement costs in Hills and Mountains, not allowing it to enter the latter severely reduces its power. It's already a weak unit in the stock game, and therefore it would be even weaker in our game.

So, to be fair to the player who might get "stuck" with the Mongols, I suggest we help the Keshik out a bit. We could:

1. Add zero-range bombard, like in the AU mod.
2. Add one HP, like War Elephants.
3. Not make it Wheeled.
4. Increase it's Attack value to 5 (making it a 5/2/2).

Of these, I prefer the first and last; I dislike the third, because it would make the Mongols uber-powerful in the context of our particular game. There are other options, but I'm going for something non-drastic.

Preferences?

	19-06-2004 08:14									#22
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Oh, yes, I, most certainly, am still in.

As far as Keshiks are concerned, number 4 seems good to me.

	19-06-2004 08:27									#23
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Yep, ready and waiting.

As for Keshiks, I agree about keeping them as wheeled. I would prefer option 1, and possibly option 2 (option 2 much preferred over option 4).

But by not making the Conquistador wheeled, doesn't this make it just way too powerful? This means it can run over 6 tiles, including the ones impassable by wheeled units. Even the Keshik needs roaded terrain to be this fast.

We're going with totally random civs, IIRC?

	19-06-2004 09:34									#24
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What do you suggest for the Conquistador?

As for the Keshik, my vote is for giving it zero-range bombard.

	19-06-2004 17:48									#25
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For simplicity's sake, let's just make the Keshik and Conquistador Wheeled and leave it at that.

To make the game more interesting, I've added another change: the Clear Wetlands (Jungle, Marsh) ability is now only available with Industrialization. That should keep the terrain interesting for a while.

Here's a summary of our scenario:

1. Cities can only be built on Flood Plains, Grassland and Plains.

2. Chop Forest available with Engineering.
3. Clear Wetlands available with Industrialization.
4. Plant Forest available with Ecology.

5. Wheeled units cannot enter Forest (in addition to Jungle, Marsh and Mountains).
6. All units that require Horses to build are Wheeled.
7. All bombard units are Wheeled.
8. All modernish-type units non-foot land units (i.e. Tanks, Flak) are Wheeled.

	19-06-2004 20:12									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I thought I'd written a response to say make the Conquistador wheeled as well, but it doesn't seem to have been posted. Must have been dreaming again Anyway, though not a perfect solution I would agree it's better than allowing the Conquistador to run riot when other fastmovers cannot.

On the "clear wetlands" move, I think Industrialisation may be a little late for a PBEM - actually, it could be interesting to move it to an earlier optional tech such at Music Theory or Free Artistry.

All the stuff on wheeled units looks fine to me. I guess this means the Celts, Japanese and whoever builds the SoZ get advantages until extensive road networks are built. Not such an impact for the Aztecs/Impi since they are not attacking units, but good for exploration.

Anyway, what you've got looks good

	19-06-2004 20:46									#27
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I made Ancient Cavalry Wheeled too.

Concerning Clear Wetlands, I think we would lose the "feel" of the scenario too quickly if we could just remove all the tough terrain at Engineering (except for Mountains, of course).

	20-06-2004 23:34									#28
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I'm attaching the mod for Sir Ralph (and any others if you want to check it out).

We now need to decide on a turn order. I'm typically available after 5pm EST (GMT-6, right?), and sometimes in the morning.

Attachment: jane.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	20-06-2004 23:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I'm attaching the mod

I thought this was the "stock" group...? What a bunch of Chetas.

	21-06-2004 00:04									#30
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I thought you were the one that dubbed it the "stock" game...