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ducki
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quote:
same settings as far as i know, |
Same difficulty too?
I forget, but doesn't difficulty affect tech rate? Or is it just map size?
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by snoopy369
Compared it to a SP game, same settings as far as i know, same nation (Byz.) ... had the same tech in 43 turns at the 'base' level of 2gp -> science, much lower as i upped science (the start i got had an extra trade compared with my MP game, but still) ... SP game with the mod Dominae posted in the first page of this thread...
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By 'base' level 2gp -> science, I assume you mean your empire is producing 2 Beakers per turn at 50% Science. So I figure you've got a net income of 4 Commerce per turn. If you empire produced 3 Commerce per turn instead, this might be rounded to 2gpt + 1bpt (Beakers per turn). So the tech that costs you ~90 Beakers total (Warrior Code?) now takes 90 turns to research, which the game lowers to 50 turns.
Just one extra Commerce in the early-game can really make the tech completion predictions vary widely (3 is bigger than 2 by 50%, after all).
Even if my analysis above is wrong (probably), I calculated the ETA on my first tech and it works out as expected (no mods).
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Dominae
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Well, it all depends on what you're researching, of course. If you're going for Writing, the tech cost should be somwhere around 30*8 = 240 beakers. So even if you're at 4bpt, it takes 240/4 = 60 turns to complete, which the game reduces to 50.
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Aqualung71
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Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:36
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While we're talking about research.....something I've wondered about and have vaguely tested lately is the minimum research time.
Say your tech cost is 120. You can research at 3bpt in 40 turns or at 4bpt in 30 turns. If you drop to 1bpt to conserve cash, you get it in 50 turns because of the minimum. Theoretically this should give you an artibtrage situation, where you can only use 50 beakers over the course of the research to gain the tech, keeping the rest in your treasury (ignoring the effect of growth).
However, it seems that even though you will get the tech in 50 turns, only 1 beaker comes off the target each turn....so in my example after turn 1 you are left with 119 beakers, turn 2, 118 beakers, and so on. The effect of this is that there is no real benefit in dropping down to 1bpt (also ignoring scientists), as you still need to make up the beakers later if you wish to get the tech in less than 50 turns.
Can someone more informed than me comment on this please?
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Dominae
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There was a discussion on that very point some time ago in another thread, Aqua (I thought that was with you, but I guess not). IMO:
If you're going to do 50-turn research, you have to decide to right from the beginning and stick with it. Otherwise you're losing valuable turns that you could be using to research something else. The counter-argument to this is that you're not actually losing any commerce so it's no big deal, but this is not the right way to look at it because you can always halt research to put Taxes way up to earn some Gold if you need it. If you never end up needing that Gold, you're still on track with your best ETA to complete the tech; half-measures will save you Gold that you may not end up needing at all.
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ducki
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Shhhh! Dominae! You're supposed to say something like "Yeah, 30% science is the best. Just ask my wife, Morgan Fairchild, whom I've slept with!"
Hehe, I'm also of the all-or-nothing mindset. Only rarely will I try to speed up research, and it generally doesn't seem to help as much as if I'd researched faster and needed to increase taxes.
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Aqualung71
So Dom, I think what you're saying is that my analysis is essentially correct.
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Yes. 
quote:
In that case, I can't really see any benefit from going the 50 turn route, particularly at the higher levels where taking 50 turns to research an early tech will put you way behind the AI quite quickly. In MP/PBEM, the tech rate is usually faster anyway due to human trading, so again a 50-turn strategy may not be very helpful.
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Well, it was definitely a stronger tactic in Play the World where the upper limit was 40 turns. I still think it can play a role, however.
In PBEM games, toward the end of the Ancient era, players are often building up quite a few units. They're also less aggressive in expansion for fear of overcommitting. Finally, the tech pace is typically slower than in SP at Emperor+ because the AI has bonsues, unless of course a crazy 3-way tech coalition is formed.
All these factors mean that the total amount of Commerce a player can dedicate research is relatively the lowest at any point in the game.
If you find that it's going to take 35 turns to research The Republic the hard way, it's probably more efficient to just let it go the full 50 turns instead. Depending on the circumstances, you could potentially accomplish much more with that saved cash than you would accomplish with hitting The Republic first. Just compare the player who spends all his income to hit Republic first to the one who spends most of it on unit upgrades and hits it 15 turns later at a 50-turn pace.
Anyway, I'm not advocating that all techs should be researched at a 50-turn pace in PBEM games (or even a few). But I think it's a viable tactic if the opportunity arises.
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Dominae
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Just a warning: I might play my turns a bit slower than usual because I do not have internet access from home anymore. It should never be more than a day or two (maximum).
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28-06-2004 23:04
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