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The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
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Aug 1999
time: 00:36
  Old Post 20-06-2004 10:49
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Clinton Back's Bush's War in Iraq Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
(CNN) -- Former President Clinton has revealed that he continues to support President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but chastised the administration over the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

Noting that Bush had to be "reeling" in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001, Clinton said Bush's first priority was to keep al Qaeda and other terrorist networks from obtaining "chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material."

"That's why I supported the Iraq thing. There was a lot of stuff unaccounted for," Clinton said in reference to Iraq and the fact that U.N. weapons inspectors left the country in 1998.

"So I thought the president had an absolute responsibility to go to the U.N. and say, 'Look, guys, after 9/11, you have got to demand that Saddam Hussein lets us finish the inspection process.' You couldn't responsibly ignore [the possibility that] a tyrant had these stocks," Clinton said.

Pressed on whether the Iraq war was worth the cost to the United States, Clinton said he would not have undertaken the war until after U.N. chief weapons inspector Hans Blix "finished his job."

Weapons inspectors led by Blix scoured Iraq for three and a half months before the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 but left after President Bush issued an ultimatum to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to leave the country.

"I want it to have been worth it, even though I didn't agree with the timing of the attack," Clinton said.

Clinton blamed the Abu Ghraib prison abuses on poorly trained National Guard personnel and higher-ups in the Bush administration.

The former president said he was not surprised by the abuses committed by U.S. forces at Abu Ghraib but that he was surprised by their extent.

"There is no excuse for that," Clinton said.

Clinton blamed the abuses on the higher echelons of the Bush administration.

"The more we learn about it, the more it seems that some people fairly high up, at least, thought that this was the way it ought to be done," he said.

Implying that the United States should lead by example, Clinton said of the abuses, "No. 1, we can't pull stunts like that, and No. 2, when we do, whoever is responsible has to pay."


I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet (unless I missed it).

While I loved Clinton as a leader (a better uniter than either Bushes), his moderate tendancies have shown that, while a decent enough Democratic leader, his ideals should not be those of the Democratic party. The simple fact that he says that he defended Bush "against the left" makes me again wonder about my faith in the American political system (which is good when compared to, like, Zimbabwe.)

Michael Moore was right...perhaps Clinton was the best Republican president of the 20th century.

Perhaps it is due to Clinton that the Democrats don't have a definite leader.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 10:54
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I only just saw this. Weird, but not wholly unthinkable. *shrugs shoulders*

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

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  Old Post 20-06-2004 10:54
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No, they haven't had a definite leader since Lyndon Johnson and even then the left hated him.

I don't find it odd that Clinton is backing Bush. He was the president after all. He knows the kind of crap that the POTUS has to worry about.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 11:19 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I only just saw this. Weird, but not wholly unthinkable. *shrugs shoulders*


shouldn't be. Clinton has supported this from the beginning. Of course he supported finishing the inspections and waiting for the U.N. as well. So there's a slight difference.

Really this is old news. Haven't you guys been paying attention to what Clinton was saying at the beginning of 2003?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 11:23
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No.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 11:25 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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This was pretty much the position of most Democratic politicians, including Kerry.

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

Prince
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 19:45
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And now an example of how the media distorts the facts:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...id=519&ncid=716

quote:

Clinton: Timing of Iraq Attack Was Wrong

1 hour, 18 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

NEW YORK - The Bush administration made a mistake by invading Iraq (news - web sites) before United Nations (news - web sites) weapons inspectors finished their work, former President Bill Clinton (news - web sites) said in advance of Tuesday's release of his memoir, "My Life."

In an interview to be published in Time magazine, he said that even though he didn't agree with the timing of the attack, he wants the Iraq invasion "to have been worth it."

"I think if you have a pluralistic, secure, stable Iraq, the people of Iraq will be better off, and it might help the process of internal reform in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere," Clinton said.

Terrorism festering in Iraq could make the lives of Iraqis worse than they had been under Hussein, Clinton said in a "60 Minutes" interview to be broadcast Sunday.

U.N. inspectors were pulled from Iraq just before the war began in March 2003, as senior U.S. officials offered assurances Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was hiding weapons of mass destruction. Months later, retired chief U.S. weapons inspector David Kay concluded Saddam did not have stockpiles of forbidden weapons, although he was conducting programs related to producing such weapons.

Asked whether he agrees with Bush that removing Saddam from power has made the world safer from terrorism, Clinton said, "I think the Iraqis are better off with Saddam gone, if they can have a stable government.

"There have been more terrorists move into Iraq in the aftermath of the conflict. I still believe, as I always have, that the biggest terrorist threat by far is al-Qaida and the al-Qaida network," Clinton said in the CBS interview.

Infinity Broadcasting aired excerpts of the book Saturday in which the former president described his reaction to hearing Martin Luther King's stirring call for unity in his "I Have a Dream" speech in 1963, when the future president was 17.

"I started crying during the speech and wept for a good while after Dr. King finished," Clinton said. "More than anything I ever experienced, except perhaps the power of my grandfather's example, that speech steeled my determination to do whatever I could for the rest of my life, to make Martin Luther King's dream come true."



Now this is a different story, using a small part of Clinton's actual stance. Only this time, the story, which is on the Front Page of Yahoo!, focuses on the negative and glosses over his support for the action.

Selective reporting anyone?

Ming is offline Ming
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 19:56 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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And you expected anything else... spin is what it's all about

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:08
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This is even more condemnation against the war.

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
This is even more condemnation against the war.


No, it's tunnel vision.

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
Selective reporting anyone?

How do you know witch one's distorting the facts, the article woun't be out until tomorrow.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Tuttle


No, it's tunnel vision.


I hope you realise that I was refering to Clinton's support (even if it is half-heated) as being another strike against the war.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:43
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quote:
And now an example of how the media distorts the facts:


They've been doing that a lot lately, haven't they? The coverage of the 9/11 commision's report is particularly disgusting...

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:45 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
And now an example of how the media distorts the facts:


They've been doing that a lot lately, haven't they? The coverage of the 9/11 commision's report is particularly disgusting...


how so?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 20:50
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The fact that they tried to portray the 9/11 commision's report as a refutation of the adminstration's claims that there were ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda, even after the members of the administration and members of the 9/11 commision itself said that the report did no such thing and questioned how the media could come to such a conclusion.

What's the point of having a media if they lie just as much as the politicians do?

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

Prince
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd


I hope you realise that I was refering to Clinton's support (even if it is half-heated) as being another strike against the war.


Hey I didn't vote for the guy...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 20-06-2004 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The fact that they tried to portray the 9/11 commision's report as a refutation of the adminstration's claims that there were ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda, even after the members of the administration and members of the 9/11 commision itself said that the report did no such thing and questioned how the media could come to such a conclusion.


Cite?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 23:14
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Bush gets support from Putin... He gets support from Clinton... With such people supporting Bush, I guess any upstanding American Republican Patriot just has to vote for anyone but Bush then

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 20-06-2004 23:16
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And go against the Lord God Putin?

Seeker is offline Seeker
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 02:01 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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"That's why I supported the Iraq thing. There was a lot of stuff unaccounted for"

ah, I missed Mister Articulation....truly the voice of a generation...

And of course remember Clinton invaded more countries than Bush has. But he was 'good' and Bush is 'evil'.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
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Aug 1999
time: 00:36
  Old Post 21-06-2004 04:11
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I shudder to think about the invasions of a second Bush term.

Also, Clinton's invasions didn't involve the massive amount of troops and reservists that Iraq and Afghanistan have.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 14:14
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Still no citations from Drake.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 18:24
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I posted the article on another thread days ago. If you missed it, that's your problem.

edit: Here it is, in your own thread, no less...

Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 21-06-2004 at 18:31

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 18:44
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for Cut and Paste Man: it seem, much like cutting and pasting, he is stuck with repetavive posts.

As for Clinton- he was always hawkish on Iraq, and probalby would have moved to invade Iraq in '98 if it weren't for the impeachment. He openly backed the invasion before the war- so why on earth is this a surprise to anyone? The bigger "news", if this is news at all, is Clinton's criticism of the timing, which is new. Though it isn't really newsworthy.

Oh, on Media distortion, no one beats FoxNews.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 18:49
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quote:
for Cut and Paste Man: it seem, much like cutting and pasting, he is stuck with repetavive posts.




Yeah, like I'm really going to waste my time finding a brand-new article to cure UR's ignorance when a perfectly good one is just sitting there...

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 18:50
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Like I said before, the great fault of cutting and pasting is, well, lack of substance.

Go ahead and post the same unsubstantiated article all you want- it will get left behind in the dust arguement wise.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 18:54
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quote:
Go ahead and post the same unsubstantiated article all you want- it will get left behind in the dust arguement wise.


How is a CNN article with actual quotes from members of the 9/11 commission "unsubstantiated"?



Jesus, GePap, you make this too easy. You're taking all the fun out of pwning you...

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ex-presidents don't critize sitting Presidents. Period. I would be shocked if Clinton did anything other than support Bush.

GePap is offline GePap
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
Go ahead and post the same unsubstantiated article all you want- it will get left behind in the dust arguement wise.


How is a CNN article with actual quotes from members of the 9/11 commission "unsubstantiated"?


I speak of the WS piece it seems at least one republican commissioner had read as well.

quote:

Jesus, GePap, you make this too easy. You're taking all the fun out of pwning you...


You know, the funniest case of pwoning is when you called me a liar for making a mistake about the last recession, then you said something utterly wrong, then I burried you under the obvious evidence of you being wrong and you ran from the thread like a little girl...now that was funny

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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  Old Post 21-06-2004 19:04
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quote:
I speak of the WS piece it seems at least one republican commissioner had read as well.


Why bring up an article that hasn't been mentioned in this thread and one that I haven't linked to since the first and only time I did so? Is that your pathetic attempt to portray me as a person "stuck with repetative posts"?



BTW, what evidence do you have that the 9/11 commissioner was using the WS article as his source of information?

edit: Especially when the commissioner says that the intelligence comes from "captured documents." You think he means a copy of the Weekly Standard found in Saddam's bathroom?

Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 21-06-2004 at 19:12

 
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