24-06-2004 19:59									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Does it really matter? The whole "sign your kid up to fight in Iraq!" bit is irredeemably lame, whether the claims surrounding it are accurate or not.

Irredeemably lame or not (I in fact think it is, I always hated those parts of his shows), it proves that (some of) the people who bash Moore's films for being full of lies have no problem making things up to attack Moore himself.

	24-06-2004 20:01									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Does it really matter? The whole "sign your kid up to fight in Iraq!" bit is irredeemably lame, whether the claims surrounding it are accurate or not.

Well, if it was a crime to tell lame jokes, the president of the USA would be in prison...

	24-06-2004 20:02									#93
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I don't think it's that lame considering the chickenhawks in charge. Whatever one may think of Kerry, you can't call him a coward.

	24-06-2004 20:12									#94
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It very much is lame to confront people and ask them to do something they can't possibly do, then act as if you scored some sort of points off them when they refuse to do that which they didn't have the ability to do in the first place.

	24-06-2004 20:12									#95
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OMG! FDR didn't fight in WW2, nor was his son there! CHICKENHAWK!! FDR lacked courage! OMG! OMG!

	24-06-2004 20:14									#96
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Yeah, Imran's right! Old men with poolio should have been in the first line at Omaha beach!

	24-06-2004 20:14									#97
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You have a point, Imran. FDR, if he had had any courage, would've spent all the money he wasted on the Manhattan Project developing an advanced type of "battle-chair" that would've allowed him to take the fight to the Nazis himself. The yellow-bellied bastard...

	24-06-2004 20:15									#98
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FDR was disabled and could hardly walk. I think that counts as a reasonable excuse for not drafting him.

And why can't congressmen encourage their children to join the military?

	24-06-2004 20:16									#99
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Moore is a populist, and the charge that the rich or those in power send people off to die in war without sharingh the risk anymore has been around since at least the Civil War.

It's not a new stun, but one that still carries weight with populist elements in the country.

	24-06-2004 20:16									#100
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quote: And why can't congressmen encourage their children to join the military?

They can encourage their children to join the military. They can't sign them up, however, which is what Moore asks them to do in the film, unless I'm mistaken.

	24-06-2004 20:44									#101
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on CNN, I saw that F9-11 broke records in 2 New York theatres on an early release on Wednesday...



it will be a great movie, and Moore critics won't offer much in the way of counter-arguments (as usual) because they are mental midgets... It's tough to fight facts, and righties don't have any to work with so they resort to attacks on the man's weight.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing it tomorrow. And if there's a God, Moore's movie will help some people make up their mind about this election. While a great many people have already made up their minds about this who they will vote for, there are a number of people on the fence who will no doubt cast a vote against Bush after watching the truth in this movie.

God bless Michael Moore... a true American hero.

	24-06-2004 20:49									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Now seriously, what do you guys think of Moore? A retard or jesus?

Michael Moore is a filmmaker who distorts the truth, telling half-truths and outright lies to change the opinions of those viewing his films. I recognize BS on both sides of the spectrum, and Moore is full of it.

to Michael Moore
to people like Sava who believe the guy

	24-06-2004 20:52									#103
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Sava -

	24-06-2004 20:52									#104
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quote: telling half-truths and outright lies

blah blah blah... your sardonic blather is tiresome... present some "lies"... you alway bash Moore, but can't bring yourself to cite ONE THING that Moore has asserted that is untrue. I believe Moore because I read a lot and find his claims are corroborated by fact and truth. When Moore starts propagating something that isn't supported by the facts, then I will start to question him. Until then, I at the pathetic and empty words of mouth-breathing Moore haters.

	24-06-2004 20:55									#105
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Verto, yep, that is why Moore is simply the Limbaugh of the Left.

	24-06-2004 20:55									#106
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Uh, I believe I have posted on several occasions several links from spinsanity and other sites who discredit Moore. Your response is always Michael Teh Moore has 0wnz0r3d those check out his site it is Ub3r!! PH33R HIM!!!!1111

	24-06-2004 20:59									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Uh, I believe I have posted on several occasions several links from spinsanity and other sites who discredit Moore. Your response is always Michael Teh Moore has 0wnz0r3d those check out his site it is Ub3r!! PH33R HIM!!!!1111

At which point you don't bother to acknowledge moore's defense and stick your head back in the sand.

	24-06-2004 21:01									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Uh, I believe I have posted on several occasions several links from spinsanity and other sites who discredit Moore. Your response is always Michael Teh Moore has 0wnz0r3d those check out his site it is Ub3r!! PH33R HIM!!!!1111

Yes, and I've consistently pointed out Moore's response to those "critics". He has effectively pwned them. You have yet to post anything of substance that contradicts anything Moore says. I think you just listen to too much right-wing media and can't tell the difference between reality and frothing-right wing nonsense.

Imran: The difference between Moore and Limbaugh (besides politics) is huge. Moore presents facts and a point of view supported by facts. If Moore just sat up there saying "blah blah bush sucks", I wouldn't care to listen to him. But he presents information that the mainstream media doesn't... And you're an idiot if you can't see the difference between the two.

Anyways, I'm done here unless anyone has anything of substance about Moore to debate. Please direct all "moore is fat and liar" assertions to your toilet where they belong. Thank you, come again.

	24-06-2004 21:01									#109
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At which point I decide a URL to Michael Moore's homepage is not worth my time.

	24-06-2004 21:03									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yes, and I've consistently pointed out Moore's response to those "critics". He has effectively pwned them. You have yet to post anything of substance that contradicts anything Moore says. I think you just listen to too much right-wing media and can't tell the difference between reality and frothing-right wing nonsense.

No, you think it is easier to categorize anyone who disagrees with you as a right-wing extremist.

	24-06-2004 21:03									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Verto At which point I decide a URL to Michael Moore's homepage is not worth my time.

Because you lack the discipline to debate. It might just be laziness on your part. I mean, if you were serious about countering Moore, you'd do some research and present facts of your own. But you don't, and you never do post anything resembling a rational thought. Pick up a book sometime. Yes, reading... left to right, top to bottom, turning each page. Try it some time... you might be able to make some coherent points in the future.

	24-06-2004 21:05									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Verto No, you think it is easier to categorize anyone who disagrees with you as a right-wing extremist.

nah, I judge each person individually. Most people don't realize they are right-wing dopes, so I have to point it out for them.

	24-06-2004 21:08									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Because you lack the discipline to debate. It might just be laziness on your part. I mean, if you were serious about countering Moore, you'd do some research and present facts of your own. But you don't, and you never do post anything resembling a rational thought. Pick up a book sometime. Yes, reading... left to right, top to bottom, turning each page. Try it some time... you might be able to make some coherent points in the future.

Yes, I can see articles from spinsanity have no validity in a discussion regarding Michael Moore, neither do they resemble rational thought. And yes, you are correct. I never read. I sit by my radio every afternoon listening to Rush and Hannity, then get my daily dose of Fox News. They provide for all my needs.

This all coming from the guy who complains how rightwingers make personal attacks on Moore's weight, because his films and books cannot be discredited.

	24-06-2004 21:11									#114
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quote: Moore presents facts and a point of view supported by facts.

You can keep telling yourself that if you want. Any 'facts' Moore spouts are no different (in style, not substance) from the 'fact's Limbaugh presents.

	24-06-2004 21:12									#115
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Don't take my perceptions of people as gospel. I just call it how I see it, and I make my judgements based upon the information I have on people. If you feel I have a misconception of you, perhaps you should backtrack and think about how you present yourself. I realize how people online perceive me, based upon how I act, what I say, and the frequency of my trolls. But I don't have any illusions about myself, and I'm comfortable with how I am looked upon. If I wanted to be perceived as an intelligent, rational person who makes coherent debate, I'd act differently.

I doubt many people are how I perceive them as I recognize my own shortcomings in how I classify people. But I'm only human, and you have to ask yourself, do you really care what the **** I think?

	24-06-2004 21:12									#116
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Ok so question:

Why does a movie named for "the temperature at which freedom burns" advocate Corruption of Blood?

	24-06-2004 21:13									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Yes, I can see articles from spinsanity have no validity in a discussion regarding Michael Moore, neither do they resemble rational thought.

It's a strange world where articles written by critics are more valid to a discussion about someone than that person's own writings and counter arguments.

	24-06-2004 21:14									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Moore presents facts and a point of view supported by facts. You can keep telling yourself that if you want. Any 'facts' Moore spouts are no different (in style, not substance) from the 'fact's Limbaugh presents.

well... then IMHO, you have an inability to tell the difference between someone like Limbaugh and someone like Moore. The right doesn't really have anyone like Moore, so it's tough to find someone to compare him to. If you care to listen to Air America, you can definitely find someone like Limbaugh. Randi Rhodes, who is on from 3pm to 7pm EST is comparable to a Limbaugh. I doubt you've read Moore's books, so perhaps you should in order to... uhmmm... know what you are talking about. Because as of now, you don't.

	24-06-2004 21:21									#119
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Moore does generally back his assertions with facts. However, he does hide facts that are opposed to his argument, and he uses emotions to have people more vulnerable to agreeing with his point of view.

The main difference with Limbaugh (with the little I saw from Limbaugh), is that Limbaugh uses no facts to justify his point of view. Zilch, nada. Limbaugh is a collection of prejudices, which are entirely unsubstanciated, instead of being partly substanciated.

	24-06-2004 21:22									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Moore does generally back his assertions with facts. However, he does hide facts that are opposed to his argument, and he uses emotions to have people more vulnerable to agreeing with his point of view. The main difference with Limbaugh (with the little I saw from Limbaugh), is that Limbaugh uses no facts to justify his point of view. Zilch, nada. Limbaugh is a collection of prejudices, which are entirely unsubstanciated, instead of being partly substanciated.

I agree with Spiffor's assessment.