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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 07:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Oh no, LoA is using facts which defend Michael Moore!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 11:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
The New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a notorious Australian press baron, whose newspapers have deliberately falsified reports and harassed ordinary people in order to further Murdoch's right wing agenda. Editorial independence does not exist in these papers: not one of Murdoch's hundreds of papers opposed the war.


I thought I said that in a more concise fashion

And that Murdoch fellow, doesn't he also own the Telegraph in UK, which printed a whole bunch of stories about having secret documents proving Saddam have had BCN weapons?

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 14:51
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Globe and Mail review, one of the better ones that I have read.


... So amid the flames of controversy already fanned by Fahrenheit 9/11, this much at least is clear: The jury was fibbing. When the film won the Palme d'or at Cannes last month, the festival jurors (headed by Quentin Tarantino) insisted they awarded the prize for purely aesthetic and not political reasons. Nonsense. Aesthetically, this isn't a great documentary, although, during the first half, there are great moments in it. But the latter part is scattered and frenzied, rather like an excited dog tearing off after too many rabbits at once — a thematic hunt that's all chase and scant context.

Still, the Cannes jury may have made the right decision for the wrong reasons, because Moore is surely on a polemical mission here. He's always been admirably keen to do more than preach to the converted; however, this movie is a political act (any artistry is just a means to an end) addressed to the sizable portion of the U.S. electorate whose political understanding has been forged exclusively by White House rhetoric and the compliant media. The rest of us will find little new in these frames, but we aren't his intended audience. Whether that audience will be reached and their hearts and minds changed — that is, whether a political act will have a political result — is how the film demands to be judged. On that question, decided by voters not by critics, the jury remains out.

...
At about the midway stage, we're led back to the beginning, to all that preening before the TV cameras, and discover that Bush is preparing for his March 19, 2003, announcement of the Iraq invasion. As he delivers it, Moore splices in shots of the Baghdad streets, where the city folk smile and innocent children frolic in a neighbourhood playground. No mention is made of Saddam's repressive regime, and Moore's implied argument is evident: Whatever the relative mindset of Iraqis on the 19th, they were a hell of a lot happier than on the 20th. Cut to the bombs bursting, and to an appalling sight — weeping civilians loading a child's tiny body atop the other corpses in the gruesome bed of a pickup truck. Then back to the TV cameras, and to another made-up face — Donald Rumsfeld — waxing lyrical about "the care, the humanity, that goes into our conduct of this war." The juxtaposition is gripping, and we hear his smug words for what they are — obscenities.

Nothing else matches that intensity. Instead, for the remaining hour, the focus gets blurred...

Over all, we're left with a strange irony. As an exercise in filmmaking, this picture bears a curious resemblance to the very debacle under review — ultimately, it too is a mess of well-documented wrongs in search of a graceful exit strategy. Aesthetically, the movie is a bit of a quagmire. However, since Moore has apparently graduated from mere satirist to citizen politician, artsy deficiencies are no longer his concern. The box office may still be his consolation, but the ballot box is now his crucible. And that awaits him. June sees the opening of Fahrenheit 9/11, but only November can take its true temperature.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../Entertainment/

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger

I thought I said that in a more concise fashion


Undoubtedly true.

quote:
And that Murdoch fellow, doesn't he also own the Telegraph in UK, which printed a whole bunch of stories about having secret documents proving Saddam have had BCN weapons?


No, that was owned by Conrad Black, a Canadian who is almost as odious as Murdoch. It's now owned by the Barclay brothers as of a couple of days ago.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 15:12
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Isn't Conrad Black the coolest name ever, though?

Actually, Murdoch is pretty cool too in that arch-villian sort of way.

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:36
Arrow  Old Post 25-06-2004 15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Now seriously, what do you guys think of Moore? A retard or jesus?

Hypocritical fatso (=lacks disclipine) knee-jerk liberal with a crusade against G.W. Armed with the intelligence of a standard American. I don't take him or the folks who appreciate with him/constantly agree with his viewpoints very seriously.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
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all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Oh no, LoA is using facts which defend Michael Moore!


Even worse, they're straight from the horse's mouth, and Moore is clearly biased in favour of himself.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 07:10 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Moore is an idiot.

He just makes things up out of nowhere.

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 07:11 Visit Dis's homepage!
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don't republicans do that as well?

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 26-06-2004 07:12 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
Isn't Conrad Black the coolest name ever, though?

Actually, Murdoch is pretty cool too in that arch-villian sort of way.


nothing beats Wolf Blitzer.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 08:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Moore is an idiot.

He just makes things up out of nowhere.


You mean like you?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 09:03
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Good God people! It's just a movie! It's not as if Moore out did the propaganda films of a certain regime that shall not be named for fear of invoking Godwin.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 09:06 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Madison Avenue long ago made the Nazis look like chumps. I dare you to watch Triumph of the Will and not laugh at their crude attempts at propganda.

Sure, seventy years ago it was good stuff. I grew up with tv.

DD, this movie is really, really powerful.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 09:10
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It's certainly got enough people pissed off to justify that claim. However, I when I can spot a lie in the trailer it kills any possible belief I might have had in the films veracity.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 09:37 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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What lie?

Lorizael is offline Lorizael

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The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 09:41
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I'm going to go see this with my brother tomorrow. I don't like Michael Moore as a person, or the way in which he expresses his views, even if he does not outright lie. Although I agree with most of his ideas when it comes to modern American politics.

My brother, on the other hand, is a hardcore liberal who thinks that Michael Moore is... truth personified, or something.

There are going to be fireworks.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
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Nov 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 10:23 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Reagan was an idiot.

He just made things up out of nowhere.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 10:57
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what lie dino?

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
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all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:01
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A bold-faced one! A lie! Yes, you heard me, lies! The film is full of lies!

What more proof do you need?

GePap is offline GePap
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Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Good God people! It's just a movie! It's not as if Moore out did the propaganda films of a certain regime that shall not be named for fear of invoking Godwin.


Moore is the government? Since when?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:38 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


You mean like you?


No I meant your momma. I heard she liked men of girth but I guess I misunderstood which girth she was talking about.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
Thumbs up  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:39 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
I've given Moore several rounds of free fellatio.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
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Nov 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:46 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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E_T is offline E_T
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Mar 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 22:53
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You know, I had gone to see the Movie last night. In my case, he was preaching to the choir. BUT, I did realize one thing that will hurt us for a very long time to come, and it's this:

Because of serveral different Idiological differences, there was no way that Saddam and Osama would have worked together, in any fashion. And Now, with Saddam out of the way and the hate that we have stired up, from Iraqis that would have not bothered us, we have now made it possible for Osama to have plenty of new recuits in Al-kida (sp).

So, even if there was "justification" (at least in the minds of the people who started this war), the end result, several years down the road, will show that the whole thing was such an increadable blunder.

But then, you need to keep some form of enemy out there, to stir up the fear gradiant, so as to keep the people from asking too many question...

E_T

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

Prince
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Mar 2003
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 23:34
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Haven't there been numerous reports of how Saddam's intelligence agency and Al Queda were talking the past few years?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 23:39
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They talked a few times. Al Qaeda wanted aid from Iraq, but were told to get lost by the Iraquis.

That is the substance of the "connection".

Moore has just repeated what the 911 commission said in that regard. IMHO that commission is a credit to the US.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 26-06-2004 23:49 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
Haven't there been numerous reports of how Saddam's intelligence agency and Al Queda were talking the past few years?


The most serious allegations have turned out to be false. What remains is far less serious than contacts the Saudi government had with AQ.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 00:13
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We know how horrible the Saudi government is. But what can we realistically do about it?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 00:25
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as jon stewart said, the bush doctrine is followed by the bush asterix.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 00:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
We know how horrible the Saudi government is. But what can we realistically do about it?


Well let's see, they attacked the United States and massacred 3,000 people. What should we do?
How about **** their **** up?

 
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