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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 07:47 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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There's got to be a way to deal with these people, because they need to be dealt with.

Er, rather, a better way to deal with them.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 07:51
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm loathe to do this but you've been annoying me with this for 2 threads:

propaganda - information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause

WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

Notice no mention that the person spreading propaganda must be in a position of power.


So essentially every single op-ed column in most newspapers, and certainly most political columnists in the coutry count as propaganda just as much as Moore. Which is why I find such a generalist definition weak- becuase thenh everything political is propaganda.which means, so what if it propaganda, everything is.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 07:55
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Well certainly Moore's films cannot be described as documentaries.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:00
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
So essentially every single op-ed column in most newspapers, and certainly most political columnists in the coutry count as propaganda just as much as Moore. Which is why I find such a generalist definition weak- becuase thenh everything political is propaganda.which means, so what if it propaganda, everything is.
The measurement hasn't been invented yet to weigh how little I care about your opinion on this point.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:03
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Maybe we can measure in millimiters the length of the response you felt important enough to spend seconds typing?

Hey, that 2 measurements already!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:05
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Now ladies, play nice.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Well certainly Moore's films cannot be described as documentaries.


Since when is "to document" the same sa saying "without opinion"?

Read the accounts of the Roman writers we use as history if you want a lesson in deeply politically biased writings.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:05
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I'll respond to most anything. It means nothing. However, it would behoove you to not annoy people over such triffling matters especially if they are correct.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:08
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"Correct"? The definition of propaganda you gave is so broad as to encompase ANYTHING that has an opinion. Meaning most every post YOU have made here could be labelled anti-Moore propaganda, and then, what? Invalid?

Please. Bithcing that Moore is not unbiased is worhtless- of course he is biased. And so am I, and so are you DD. And so what? If no one was biased, there would be no debate whatsoever.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:11
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


Since when is "to document" the same sa saying "without opinion"?

Read the accounts of the Roman writers we use as history if you want a lesson in deeply politically biased writings.


The Merriam-Webster entry for documentary lists the words factual, objective.

The American Heritage Dictionary, when one does a search for the word documentary, says "presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film."

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:11 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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The definition of propaganda DD gave is the correct one, and had I not wanted to have Verto be more annoyed with me than he already is, I would have been the one to post it, not DD.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:12 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
The Merriam-Webster entry for documentary lists the words factual, objective.

The American Heritage Dictionary, when one does a search for the word documentary, says "presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film."


I've never once seen a documentary that fits that standard.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:13
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I'm sorry.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The definition of propaganda DD gave is the correct one, and had I not wanted to have Verto be more annoyed with me than he already is, I would have been the one to post it, not DD.


Did I say it was incorrect? No, I said it was broad. Which mean I could correctly call many many things today propaganda. Thnigs that if I were to correctly label as propaganda, people might start complaining, becuase in the modern word the word has a connotation that is unseamly. You know, how the Swaztika is an acient symbol used by many cultures with no evil connotation, but is banned from this site becuase of what it came to mean due to one specific use.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:16 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Even the crappy ones we had in high school had a point of view, like Science is Fun or Your Friend, your lower intestine!

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto


The Merriam-Webster entry for documentary lists the words factual, objective.

The American Heritage Dictionary, when one does a search for the word documentary, says "presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film."


Hmmm....so is that saying there can be no documentary films?

definition from Websters New World dictionary:

documentary: 1. consisting of, suported by, contained in, or serving as a document or documents 2.designating or of a motion picture, television program etc. that dramatically shows or analyzes news events, social conditions, etc. with little or no fictionalization.

that is ISBN 0-13-947169-3 for reference.

Which I find to be a utterly correct and valid definiton far more in tune with reality.

Maybe Verto needs to upgrade dictionaries.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:24
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Those dictionaries were a gift from Stonewall Jackson himself!

I just viewed the trailers for Michael Moore Hates America; I wonder how many theaters will carry out?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 08:27 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Say what?

1. You said Moore makes up stuff out of thin air.

2. I replied, you mean like you.

3. Then you insult my mother.

Please tell how 3 is a valid response to 2 in any way. I was willing to overlook it it because you're Ted Striker, but now that you're claiming it was a justified response, I'm not quite so forgiving.


Uh, the part you quoted included the sentence, "Moore is an idiot."

I've seen your personal attacks all over the place so take responsibility for your own actions.

Looks like you just made something up out of thin air.

CASE CLOSED

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
No I meant your momma. I heard she liked men of girth but I guess I misunderstood which girth she was talking about.




Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
Thumbs up  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:40 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:43
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What che said was true. Name one thing Moore has made up out of thin air.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:50 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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You mean like the interview he gave the other day question if Bin Laden really had any involvment in the September 11th attacks?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker





Attacking friends and family members of posters is strictly forbidden.

You know that.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 09:57
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How is asking a question making something up? Did he assert that was the case?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:02 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Attacking friends and family members of posters is strictly forbidden.

You know that.


DUH

So is calling somebody an idiot

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
So is calling somebody an idiot


Didn't you do that first?

Besides, che didn't call you an idiot, he was referring to your making things up out of thin air.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:12
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Please. Bithcing that Moore is not unbiased is worhtless-
Possibly the reason why I take the time to point out that he's a liar and provide non-right wing sources to prove my point. Just a guess.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:14 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Didn't you do that first?

Besides, che didn't call you an idiot, he was referring to your making things up out of thin air.


I called Moore an idiot.

Chegitz quoted it and said, "like you."


Of course he used the Moore approach and added some other stuff in with the same that way plausible deniability is easily used.

"What? I didn't say that..."

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:19
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" The writers ....have been living in a world in which not only one’s life but one’s whole scheme of values is constantly menaced. In such circumstances detachment is not possible. You cannot take a purely aesthetic interest in a disease you are dying from; you cannot feel dispassionately about a man who is about to cut your throat. In a world in which Fascism and Socialism were fighting one another, any thinking person had to take sides, and his feelings had to find their way not only into his writing but into his judgements on literature. Literature had to become political, because anything else would have entailed mental dishonesty. One’s attachments and hatreds were too near the surface of consciousness to be ignored. What books were about seemed so urgently important that the way they were written seemed almost insignificant.

It reminded us that propaganda in some form or other lurks in every book, that every work of art has a meaning and a purpose — a political, social and religious purpose — that our aesthetic judgements are always coloured by our prejudices and beliefs. "

The Frontiers of Art and Propaganda George Orwell

A broadcast talk on the B.B.C. Overseas Service, April 30th, 1941.

document- something that furnishes evidence

document- to furnish with proofs, illustrations, descriptions, contention, et cetera.

propaganda- association or scheme for propagating a doctrine or practice (from the Congregatio de propaganda fide, the Catholic committee of Cardinals in charge of foreign missions)

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 27-06-2004 10:20
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We've already had that copy paste war but thanks for playing molly.

 
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