 |
|
Googlie
|
 |
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
|
|
Junta Officers (so far)
(Rank somewhat arbitrarily assigned as per the Spartan Information Screens
Chairman of the Junta (pro-tem, during Santiago's indisposition) - and turnplayer: Lt. Colonel Maniac
Head of Diplomacy: Captain "General"Tacticus
Minister of Defense: Major Jamski
Quartermaster: Major Skanky Burns
Minister of Information: Captain Kassiopeia
Head of Covert Ops: Major Googlie
Head of the Admiralty: Lt. Commander Dissident
Last edited by Googlie on 30-07-2004 at 22:07
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Skanky Burns
|
 |
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
|
|
Turn Order:
Gaia
Hive
University
Data Angels
Morgan
Spartans
Peace Keepers
Password for Spartan Turn:
domination
Last edited by Skanky Burns on 05-07-2004 at 08:48
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Googlie
|
|
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
|
|
This was originally posted by Maniac in the Archived threads
quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Everyone should get a unit to command as a priority
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Above all, we need ranks. Lots of them. Also we need branches of the armed forces, a strict system of organising these forces (battalions, escadrons, fleets, flotillas, squadrons, and so on). |
For ranks and rates I'd like to refer back to a post I made a while back in this thread:
It sounds a nice idea to let everyone have a unit they command. (Though do I assume correctly it would still be allowed for others to offer suggestions what to do with all those units and coordinate our efforts?)
As for army organization in battalions and squadrons etcetera, I'd like to refer to this site I found a while back:
http://usmilitary.about.com/library...inofcommand.htm
I have also been thinking a bit about how many soldiers should be in one in-game unit, and how we should call such a unit. Based on the link above, I concluded calling our seperate units batallions, containing at minimum 300 soldiers and commanded by a Lieutenant-Colonel, would be most realist. I got to that number like this:
1> One pop in SMAC is 10000 people.
2> Even in the countries with the largest percentage of military of the total population, the percentage is "only" 2%. I assume that this can't be much different for the Spartans, at least in peace time. However let's assume we'll be at war most of the time and thus have a larger military all the time and let's also count police forces to the military, and thus say our military is 4% of our population.
3> Looking at the military sizes in the current ACDG, I'd say it would be a good estimate that we'll have one military unit per one to two pops.
> 4% of 10000 = 400 military in one pop, and each pop supports between a half and one unit.
That way we about have the minimum size of a battalion (300) per unit and we can all call ourselves to the very least Lieutenant-Colonel if we command one. (Yeah, not such a steady argumentation, but it's better than nothing )
quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
For instance, the leader could be the Commander in Chief, with the honourary title of Colonel (of course). All the other nodes of the spider web, who feed the information to the CiC, could be Generals of their possible different specialties (we could call these branches, like Intelligence, Military, Research, and so on).
Originally posted by Drogue
I'd go for Commander in Chief, then Major General for 2nd in command, and Generals for each department. |
AFAIK a Major General is a lower rank than a General, so that would sound rather contradictory for a second in command.
I'll throw in an alternative proposal for discussion:
Commander in Chief
= turnplayer. Unlike the system we had in the Consciousness, IMHO the turnplayer doesn't necessarily have to be the "leader" of the faction though. Eg in the Hive Kody was for a long time the turnplayer AFAIK, while other people had the highest official positions of Chairman and Deputy Chairman etc.
President
= guardian of the consitution, takes care of nominations and elections, and fills in for absent officials. More or less the job description of the Alpha Talent and the Second Function in the previous ACDGs. The "President" wouldn't have powers such as presidents like in the USA or France though. I'd rather see it as a "President" such as in Italy or Israel, where IIRC it is more a ceremonial function. Likewise here it would mostly be a "meta-game" organizational function, and (unless officials are absent) thus without in-game powers. Therefore it seems fitting not to give this job a military title.
Ministers
= the Directors and XX Functions of the previous ACDGs. Kassiopeia and Drogue proposed to call them all Generals. However I was thinking: let's give all the government officials the title of 'Minister', but allow them besides that a military title of their choice. That way you don't force everyone to be a General, but everyone can besides 'minister' still pick a more personalized title of their liking, eg Colonel, Field Marshall, Admiral of the Fleet, etcetera.
Oh yeah, perhaps a title especially reserved for the 'Minister of Military Affairs' (and thus the supreme commander of the entire army, fleet and air force) could be 'Generalissimo'.
quote:
Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
hmz i dont think we should go above colenel...
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
I respectfully disagree. A faction of any size would have far too many levels of hierarchy in its military to have so few ranks. We'd have to place Colonel on the top of a standard hierarchy you have in real life, today. I'd prefer reserving it for the CiC and removing it from the lower rank status it has altogether, so that there will always be only one Colonel (with a capital C) at a given time in Sparta. |
If I recall correctly I read once that Colonels have such a "special status" because they are the highest rank that still have soldiers directly under them and command them themselves from the field. All the higher ranks such as generals would more or less perform their job from behind their desk and make battle plans for the army from there, and thus hardly see soldiers directly.
So making Colonels the highest army official as DBTS proposes (and thus as a consequence give them the desk job the generals currently have) or making "Colonel" a title only reserved for the supreme Spartan leader as Kassiopeia proposes, would remove the exact reason why 'Colonel' is such a special title. I'd therefore say to leave them what they are: the highest ranking commander that is actually with their soldiers on the field, and therefore has greater respect from the common soldier.
If, such as Kassi proposes, you really want to give the supreme Spartan leader the title of Colonel, a work-around could be to name one of our elite units the "Factional Guard" (hint towards the 'Praetorian Guard'), keep it in Sparta Command at all times, and place it under direct command of the Spartan supreme leader. Since the leader would have direct control and always be with his soldiers "on the field" in Sparta Command, the title of "Colonel" would then be justified.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Googlie
|
|
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
|
|
Followed by:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Generals is better than Chiefs, but I prefer Captains, myself.
The C-in-C would be Colonel Maniac, or Colonel Jamski etc, the second-in-command would be Lt.Col. Skanky etc..
Then the people in charge of particular depts. would be Capts. |
then, in reply:
quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Available official positions in the Spartan War Machine:
The Turnplayer - Commander in Chief which can be shortenend to CiC
The person to authorise others into our forum - Director of Domestic Operations or Quartermaster
A person who is the "official" contact point with other factions - Minister of Propaganda.
Due to the military nature of our faction, it would probably be best if all position titles could be converted into TLAs.
Commander in Chief seems to be well accepted by now. I suggest we keep it.
The CiC will have the rank of Colonel (ie: Colonel Maniac or Colonel Jamski)
The 2iC will have the rank of Lt.Col.
While Quartermaster suits, it doesn't lend itself to shortening very well. QM to my mind sounds too similar to GM or DM.
DDO seems ok, but I would like to see the first initial as A or I. If we could think of something appropriate that started with either letter...
Minister of Propaganda sounds fine. That is, until you TLA it into MoP. Which may be appropriate considering the military view of the media. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kassiopeia
|
 |
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:37
|
|
Considering that it'll take quite a few turns for us to get contacts in the first place, Foreign Affairs will be quite a quiet post for some time.
Ancient Sparta had two kings and managed fine - two heads of the diplomatic department ought to manage as well. In Foreign Affairs I'm more interested in the pensmanship and facets of propaganda involved, rather than studying the intricate webs of interfactional relationships as such (hence my interest in running the factional newsletter).
In that sense, I could stay as Minister of Information, and merely act as the "voice" of Sparta. You could be the "intent" of Sparta, the one who polls for opinions and ponders the general guidelines we go by, plans the strategy and so on. Naturally we could, in name of general flexibility, work in both roles, and act as an advisor for the other.
To maintain the appearance of mild disinterest and isolationism, though, it'd be better to have only one clear figurehead for Sparta in the diplomatic circles (that would be me  ). It's a clear message when a meeting is held with a legion of attaches and assistants sent by the other side, while the other party sends a single official. Quite a striking image, especially in negotiations for surrender, although I don't see the Spartans accepting anything else than unconditioned surrender unless we're doing really badly.
Of course, if we can find you something else to do, I'd be more than willing to assume the diplomatic duties completely. There just isn't much more than advising the turnplayer, considering that the basic idea of running Sparta, as set down by Major Jamski, relies on the principle of people as a web feeding the turnplayer in the centre information.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
GeneralTacticus
|
 |
of Melbourne, Australia
Dec 2001
time: 15:37
|
|
Hmmm... looks like a pretty good idea. Just to make sure I've got it right: you would do the 'public relations' side of things, by publishing stuff and sending messages to people, and I'd be the one to pick over all the diplo stuff and make recomondations based on it?
Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 28-06-2004 at 13:22
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Googlie
|
|
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
|
|
From Wikipedia's Sparta
quote:
Military service and training
In the powers exercised by the assembly of the citizens or apella we cannot trace any development, owing to the scantiness of our sources. The Spartan was essentially a soldier, trained to obedience and endurance: he became a politician only if chosen as ephor for a single year or elected a life member of the council after his sixtieth year had brought freedom from military service.
Shortly after birth the child was brought before the elders of the tribe, who decided whether it was to be reared: if defective or weakly, it was exposed in the so-called Training of Citizens.
Thus was secured, as far as could be, the maintenance of a high standard of physical efficiency, and thus from the earliest days of the Spartan the absolute claim of the state to his life and service was indicated and enforced. Till their seventh year boys were educated at home: from that time their training was undertaken by the state in the agoge system and supervised by the paidonomos, an official appointed for that purpose. This training consisted for the most part in physical exercises, such as dancing, gymnastics, ball-games, etc., with music and literature occupying a subordinate position. There were also contests to see who could take the most severe beating. From the twentieth year began the Spartan's liability to military service and his membership of one of the dining messes or clubs, composed of about fifteen members each, to one of which every citizen must belong. At thirty began the full citizen rights and duties. For the exercise of these three conditions were requisite: Spartiate birth, the training prescribed by law, and participation in and contribution to one of the dining-clubs. Those who fulfilled these conditions were the peers, citizens in the fullest-sense of the word, while those who failed were called routtoves (lesser men), and retained only the civil rights of citizenship.
Spartiates were absolutely debarred by law from trade or manufacture, which consequently rested in the hands of the perioeci, and were forbidden (in theory) to possess either gold or silver, the currency consisting of bars of iron. Wealth was, in theory at least, derived entirely from landed property, and consisted in the annual return made by the helots who cultivated the plots of ground allotted to the Spartiates. But this attempt to equalize property proved a failure: from early times there were marked differences of wealth within the state, and these became even more serious after the law of Epitadeus, passed at some time after the Peloponnesian War, removed the legal prohibition of the gift or bequest of land. Helots were ruthlessly controlled, primarily through the secret police or Krypteria
Later we find the soil coming more and more into the possession of large landholders, and by the middle of the 3rd century s.c. nearly two-fifths of Laconia belonged to women. Hand in hand with this process went a serious diminution in the number of full citizens, who had numbered 8,000 at the beginning of the 5th century, but had sunk by Aristotle's day to less than 1,000, and had further decreased to 700 at the accession of Agis IV in 244 BC. The Spartans did what they could to remedy this by law: certain penalties were imposed upon those who remained unmarried or who married too late in life. But the decay was too deeply rooted to be eradicated by such means, and we shall see that at a late period in Sparta's history an attempt was made without success to deal with the evil by much more drastic measures. |
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Kassiopeia
|
|
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:37
|
|
I've finally read up on the US military ranks. I'm not saying we should be using them like them, but it does give some guidelines. I am not aware if the following things are true for other nations' military, Andemagne may be able to fill in on the Finnish Defence Forces.
For instance, a Lt. Colonel can be called just "Colonel", meaning we could refer to Maniac as "Colonel" if we so wished.
Also, a Colonel is usually an officer of some speciality, like artillery, but from the next step, Brigadier General, they are expected to be an officer who deals with all manners of disciplines in his own branch.
Therefore the choice of the game makers to make Santiago a Colonel is rather interesting, perhaps the Spartan Way is not to have pompous officers of the General level at all? Who knows.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Googlie
|
|
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:37
|
|
If no-one else wants to take responsibility for terraforming, I'll gladly pass over command of Rolling Thunder and take on the mantle of the Engineering Corps
Last edited by Googlie on 28-07-2004 at 06:29
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Skanky Burns
|
|
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:37
|
|
Rollcall:
Andemagne
ChairmanSlick
DeathByTheSword
Dissident
Drogue*
GeneralTacticus
Googlie
Jamski
Kassiopeia
Kody*
Maniac
Master Zen
Method*
Ogie Oglethorpe
Primus Pilus
Rynn:**
Skanky Burns
Snoddasmannen
Snowflake*
Zeiter
Zero
* Moderator
** DL
ACDG3 Spartans (22)
ACDG3 Gaians (23)
ACDG3 Morgan (26)
ACDG3 Data Angels (14)
Issue 2 of Spartans, Gaians and Morgan are on the ACDG3 front page, all having a reply within the past two days. The Data Angels have not produced any news items.
Last edited by Skanky Burns on 28-07-2004 at 19:50
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-06-2004 06:54
I did volunteer for the position of head of diplomacy too on the pre-Apolyton private forums. We could share the task, of course, but there was a consensus that one person ought to have that particular job. Not that I'm too concerned with titles, but I'd just like to take part in foreign affairs. What's your input on this, GeneralTacticus?
I'll do it here.
) 
|