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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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IMPORTANT NOTE TO OUR GENERALS (which includes Vulture from now on  ): We're 7 turns away from the earliest point at which Lego can invade us. Our defenses need to be ready beforehand. We need to move everything in place, and need to build most of our defensive forces, so could you please finalize the precise plan ASAP! Only 2 turns remain for final orders, pleaeaeaeaeaeaeaessee
Start
- RP sends 100 gold + WM. accepted. Send our own WM, iron, furs and corporation in return. Can't send horses. Does anyone have the precise eta of Sanitation?
- EotS builds rifle. Starts rifle.
- Cyclone builds worker, starts worker.
- Bolderberg builds destroyer. Starts destroyer. By pure coincidence, pollution hits Bolderberg right when my shield count was not perfect last time, and I would have lost 4 shields (destroyer ending at 124, instead of 120). So no delay because of the pollution (3rd one so far)!
- Tempest builds rifle. starts rifle.
- Typhoon builds harbor, starts cathedral.
- Arashi builds rifle. Starts rifle
- Monsoon builds rifle. Starts destroyer (which we need more then rifles)
- Pollution strikes WoC  (4th pollution). That's bad luck, the PS was about to finish. Lost WLTKD due to starvation as well.
- Lego doesn't have combustion yet, but should research it this turn. I'm sending it to ND, as we'll need their silks next turn. Let's hope I didn't miscount... otherwise Lego is receiving a 300 beaker bonus.
- 4058 gold, 90%, 889 bpt, -241 gpt. (Mass prod in 2 of 4) 1774/3360 beakers collected tech cost
forces
(- 8 spear, 27 pikes, 8 knights, 8 cat, 12 MI, 2 galley)
- 33 workers
- 31 rifle (+3/turn)
- 14 galleon
- 3 destroyer (+.83/turn)
- 2 transports (+1.03/turn)
For the moment, I'm leaving the knights. If we don't go for cavs, I want to use them asap to rush stuff.
- Average in strength to GoW, weak to ND and Lego
Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.
- pollution control (twice)
- foresting on D-ville 9
- foresting on Tornado 77.
- the rest of the workers create forts in RP (one of 'our' hills remains, one hill is covered by an RP cat).
- new rifles spread over coastal cities, all coastal cities have one, Hurricane has two rifles.
- our Southern most galley auto-moves to Pica scout, to replace the galleon which is present there (saves 60 gold to use a galley as scout instead of the galleon).
- Galleon scouting Nelson, returns to Blizzard to be upgraded.
- Galleon from Blizzard auto-moves to scouting spot near Sufa (2 turns)
- Galleon forted in Inchoff moves towards deep scouting spot near Abilene(3 turns)
- destroyer in Blizzard moves towards Lego coast
- destroyer from Monsoon auto-moves towards Sufa
- destroyer from D-ville auto-moves towards Inchoff.
- new detroyer from Bolderberg automoves to Sufa
- Galleon in Inchoff upgrades to Transport.
workforce shuffles
- Cyclone set back to ideal pattern (needs this every turn).
- WoC is running a terrible overshoot in shields with the pollution (damn, still hate that). Gives all possible tiles to Inchoff, and whatever it can spare (one mountain and a grass) to Inchon. Takes coast and sea instead.
- Inchon and Inchoff obviously take those tiles, offer coast in return.
- Elipolis has too many shields. I would prefer to spend knights on that, to get it better, however we're saving those for the moment. So it gives one grass to Inchon, takes coast instead. Next turn, it can take give the hill instead of the grass, for further shields to Inchon.
- D-ville takes mountina from SA, gives grass instead. eta destroyer -1, Battle field medicine build should not be affected when D-ville gives the tile back next turn.
Current Builds
long term plans for our cities
Eli : hospital in 4 (PS later)
Inchon : aqua in 6
WoC : PS in 1. Cathedral next
Inchoff : market in 4. shortrushing not done, due to extra shields from WoC.
D-ville : destroyer in 2
Santa Ana : Battlefield Medicine in 8 (goes eta-1 once the mountain is retaken from D-ville)
Blizzard : transport in 2(one forest chopped)
Monsoon : destroyer in 4 (eta -1 once tile is mined again)
Arashi : rifle in 2
WW : market in 1
Tempest : rifle in 1
SS: settler in 3 (can't become a 5-turn settler pump without damaging other cities. Will go for one turn of wealth before returning to settlers)
Hurricane : transport in 1. (2 forest chopped for eta-1) Either destroyers, or one more transport (with 1 chop, and 8 shield shortrush to granary)
OG : transport in 1 (destroyer next?)
EotS : rifle in 1
Bolderberg : destroyer in 3 (one turn of irr on plain needed)
Cyclone: worker in 1
Tornado : destroyer in 3 (chop done for -1)
Typhoon : cathedral in 2
Sufa : market in 94
Other
- Lego and Vox now have sanition. Vos is a modestly well researcher, they had it in 5 or 6 turns (after 3 other teams had it, of course)
- in F11, we're #3 in production at 651Megatons. (last turn 675). decrease is due to WoC, which was set to minimal shields due to pollution.
Next Turn
- send refining to RP
- send Combustion to GoW (they don't know it's coming, but will need it to be able to start on marines asap)
- hack into city view when EotS completes rifle, and be sure all cities have received the renewed silks from ND
- give mountain back to SA from D-ville
- mine Monsoon 3
- foresting near Hurricane
DeepO
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Sir Ralph
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Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:37
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Yes, I receive the save on a regular basis from vmxa1, thanks for keeping me up to date. I follow the events with interest, even though I may not post much.
A question, what point has foresting D-ville 9 other than taking away one food (which is wasted anyway, I know)? As far as I see, it turns a 2/2/2 tile into a 1/2/2 tile, that's all. Or is it for adding a defense bonus?
Another reason might be to fight global warming, I heard rumors that foresting helps to fight it, but I never saw an exact study about this, so I don't know if it's true.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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SR, I use the foresting term to indicate that I forest, chop, and mine or irr (whatever was before foresting) a tile. The whole idea is to get the 10 shield bonus. In previous turnthread, you can see a map of all tiles that already gave this bonus, as you can only get it once.
global warning is a pain, though. All the other teams don't bother with hydro plants (they don't have access to those, only we have), but are planting coal plants instead. which is the reason why we see so many pollution.
And I think I once saw a global warning study (but it could have been Civ2), where every forest in the world deminished the total pollution count with one.
Maybe we should start a thread, asking for a global Kyoto pact, where people who make more CO2 (coal plant teams) also create more forests? Could be a fun thread... in a way it's not fair that GS, who does most to keep warming down, suffers hardest (as every pollution hits a productive tile, instead of having only 50% to actually damage something)
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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Isn't pollution related to global warning? we only have 5 metros, and 2 of the cities hit by pollution so far weren't even metros. Besides, pollution from factories is halved by hydros, right?
I know all our cities have factories, and our land is very intensively worked, but we're currently at something like 1 pollution per turn, for our relatively small empire. Maybe I didn't notice it when I still used to play SP games (which is a long time ago ) as I always had workers on automatic, but it seems pollution is very high to me...
as to forest having an impact: Maybe it's SMAC from which I remembered (it most certainly had an impact there, albeit a small one), but I'll look into the Civ3 documentation to see if I read it there... It wouldn't be the first time I completely misread something, though.
PS: CH, thanks for looking up where we got Sanitation. I'll send it to RP then!
DeepO
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vulture
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Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:37
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Pollution is IIRC entirely independent of global warming - well, the relationship only runs one way. Pollution might help cause global warming (not sure if it is determined by on-map pollution, total pollution from cities, or a combination of both) but on-map pollution only comes from individual cities as I understand it. Basically, a city producing N pollution per turn (in the city view screen) has an N% chance each turn of producing a pollution marker. From that, it's pretty easy to work out our chances of getting zero pollution events per turn (anyone want to post the pollution numbers for each city).
Forests have no documented impact on pollution or global warming, except indirectly. Global warming hitting a forested tile will destroy the forest, but not afect the underlying terrain. If there is no forest there, the underlying terrain is changed (grasslands to plains, plains to desert, not sure about tundra, possibly tundra to grassland, which is actually a bonus). So foresting everywhere can reduce the rate at which the world becomes a desert, but only at the expense of keeping everything as forest instead.
I generally find with Hoover that for a decent sized empire I'm typically getting 2-4 pollutions per turn in the late industrial. A few turns of getting 1 per turn for our small empire sounds quite plausible to me as a minor run of bad luck.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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I'm going to look into those city pollution next time I've got the save open. In case we've got a few cities where it is very high, we better take this into account, and keep some spt extra (whenever we can, of course). So far, pollution hit us 4 times, in 2 cases delaying a unit by a turn (once it was compensated by shortrushing, and building a more expensive unit). We can't lose one unit each turn, or we never will get a decent invasion force.
As to forests: I'll remember it from SMAC or Civ2 then. SMAC, it had a modest influence on fungusgrowth, and global warming. That was documented in the eco formula... I've never actually seen a eco-formula for Civ3.
Oh, and vulture: tundra always stays tundra. The line for degradation of terrain goes (forest or jungle)->grass->plains->desert. Tundra is not involved. And, RNGgods, please do not cause any degradation in our empire, pollution is already a pain to deal with!
DeepO
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
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That sucks.
A thought...
we could have RP propose a kyoto type thing in the main forum, maybe get Vox in on it, as the minor nations thing. Just to increase activity and fun for the next few turns. That is, if RP even has one person active enough for it...
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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wait a minute, there is a way to prevent Tempest from losing all the shields, but it costs 80 gold. And I'm nost sure on the validity of the 'hack'
Pollution is created when a city is going through its production cycle, right? In that case, it might be considered an exploit to hack into city view earlier, and rush a worker (80 gold). After all, you need to go through the save twice to know beforehand pollution is going to strike.
It would make a nice tactic to prevent too many losses from pollution, though. Open the save, note where pollution is creating a problem, close the save, reopen, rush workers or short rush other stuff where needed, and let pollution strike.
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
We could only rush a worker while not on another build, and even so it would only reduce the probability of being hit by pollution, not guarrantee avoidance. |
CH, I was not talking about actually building a worker. In a 80spt city like Tempest, pollution will make it a 74spt city for one turn. By rushing a worker, and setting it back to rifle, we put 84 shields in that rifle. But that's better then losing 74 shields as there is nothing more expensive to build in Tempest...
But I still think it's an exploit. In case pollution would come before production, there would be no problem
quote:
Mass Transit is only three techs away after next turn... |
perhaps, but I would go for MI first, no? we could use them when invading, I think we get them in time to upgrade our infs before embarking. MA is going to be trickier, we will get that once we're on Lego. It's very hard to have it beforehand.
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30-06-2004 03:34
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