 |
| |
|
|
vovan
|
|
Introduction
Graphics is of course an important aspect of any game. That is how we perceive the game world, and that is how it communicates with us. Ideas regarding how we would like the graphics to look like, as well as requests, and suggestions go here.
Summary
None Yet.
Related Threads
Civ IV will have a 3D map! A discussion of possibilities by VetLegion
Squares, Hexes, Octagons... by Uber KruX
Vote HERE to bring back Wonder movies by Dominae
Table of Contents
None Yet.
The Ideas
1. The Two Outlooks
So, currently, there are basically two points of view on the graphics. One is that it should be merely functional, and it doesn't much matter that it looks good - as long is it is not ugly. Some of the proponents of this point of view are:
Master Zen: We do not buy strategy games for flashy graphics so this is perhaps the only aspect of Civ4 I am really not interested in.
Solver: What I'd love to see is Civ1 graphics in Civ4. Seriously. Functional, still good looking, easy to understand. Extremely low computer requirements. Implement all the new gameplay concepts, etc., but Civ1 graphics.
The other point of view is that even for strategy games, graphics should progress with the technology. The move to 3D is only a natural step in the same direction other games have been moving lately. Though there aren't many people around who support a move to th 3D.
Trip : 3D can be good (as I've said elsewhere) - streamline the graphics creation process, add new features that improve usability (better zooming, panning, etc. options), and make the map more interesting to look at, obviously.
2. Unit Proportions
Well, we already know that the game will be done in 3D. The next question is, how would the unit and city proportions be handled? Historically, the natural proportions were never preserved. That is to say, units on the map were disproportionately large. Basically, if we look at the map, we see the cities, mountains, and units being roughly the same size. I suppose there's reason to believe that will still be the case in Civ3, for as we have seen even with the newer strategy games like RoN, it would be easiest to inflate the size of the units in order to make them discernible from the bird's-view persepective that the games usually take.
DarkCloud: Landscapes and mountains and vistas are just too large and people are just too small for the proportions to work out correctly. It's always going to look a bit strange.
VetLegion : No realism in depicting units, and even little realism in depicting cities. It was always so in the genre and I think it will remain so in 3D.
But terrain itself could for the first time become more realistic. 3D will allow for more variation and I think it is reasonable to expect realistic proportions between land features themselves. Himalayas being twice as high as the Alps and such, instead of both being represented by generic "Mountain" tile drawing.
3. Avoid Excessive Eye-Candy
Whatever the view on the desired type of graphics engine for Civ4, it seems the consensus is that excessive eye-candy is unneeded.
Trip: [Avoid] focusing in the minor details and the "fluff" which other genres and especially RTS games liked to get sucked into.
4. Wonder Movies:
See the related voting thread. So far, the option to bring back the wonder movies is leading.
Conclusion
None Yet.
Last edited by vovan on 11-07-2004 at 02:00
|
|
| |
|
|
|
vovan
|
|
What if we have a lot of discussion here post.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Brent
|
|
I too would like to have graphics similar to Civ1. I strongly agree about low computer requirements. Better zooming options is good. Fan- created units are a good reason for simple graphics. We do not need to be able to zoom in to watch laborers and definitely not battles. Have more than one graphics mode.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Traps that could be fallen into: focusing in the minor details and the "fluff" which other genres and especially RTS games liked to get sucked into.  For example, zooming into cities and watching laborers do their jobs or zooming into a battle and seeing individual fighting it out. |
That's only a trap if they neglect other areas. If they have the fluff and the stuff, then this is a perk, not a trap.
Frankly, the game is going to have much better graphics than the previous Civs. Why? To attract a larger audience. Now, the Core audience is going to get it anyway, so might as well do a bit extra to make it appeal to a larger set. That's jut how it is, and it is a bit unfortunate that graphics matter like that, but they do.
As such we should focus on what we want to see, and what priorities we have, as opposed to trying to say we want low graphics. The latter isn't going to happen.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Trip
|
 |
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
That's only a trap if they neglect other areas. If they have the fluff and the stuff, then this is a perk, not a trap.
Frankly, the game is going to have much better graphics than the previous Civs. Why? To attract a larger audience. Now, the Core audience is going to get it anyway, so might as well do a bit extra to make it appeal to a larger set. That's jut how it is, and it is a bit unfortunate that graphics matter like that, but they do.
As such we should focus on what we want to see, and what priorities we have, as opposed to trying to say we want low graphics. The latter isn't going to happen.
-Drachasor |
Considering the fact that most games are delayed or incomplete due to a lack of effort put in the right locations, there's usually very little time or people that can be spent on "fluff" while not hurting the rest of the game.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
asleepathewheel
|
|
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
|
|
I'll be happy with just about anything at or above the current level ov ciii, so long as folks such as Sn00py and Warpstorm can work their magic.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Brent
|
|
Graphics to concentrate on: opening movies, wonder movies, victory movies, advisors
Graphics not to concentrate on: unit animation, terrain, CG leaderheads
|
|
| |
|
|
|
asleepathewheel
|
|
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean skins (customised graphics)? |
me?
I was referring to the terrain sets the two created. I've used Warpstorm's watercolor set since it was released for civ3.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Considering the fact that most games are delayed or incomplete due to a lack of effort put in the right locations, there's usually very little time or people that can be spent on "fluff" while not hurting the rest of the game. |
Considering the artists making graphics aren't going to be programmers, and that after a certain point it is all artist work (no more programming), it actually doesn't do much to hurt the game, per se. Naturally some companies, as in the film industry, spend more time on fluff than on substance. This isn't always the case, and it needn't and won't occur here. Unless you are saying you somehow think the Civ team is going to suddenly be focused on graphics to the detriment of everything else?
Anyhow, as I said, there is going to a certain amount of work put forth into graphics. They are going to be 3D. Now I am sure the Dev-team understands we don't want the best graphics in the world, indeed, I am sure they understand the substance is of primary importance in order to get good sales. As such, there are going to be a *limited* amount of resources put forth into graphics, and the Dev-team might appreciate some idea of where the fans would like to see that focused on. "Don't spend time on graphics beyond Civ-1 levels" isn't helpful. What will be found helpful is something like "focus on terrain more than Leader-heads" or "wonder movies more units."
Personally I think the Wonder Movies should be nice and entertaining, but since Units and terrain are going to be around the whole game, I'd like more time spent on them. The Civ2 movies were great, and I don't think anything much beyond that really needs to be done (beyond updated graphics)
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Trip
|
|
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Drachasor
Considering the artists making graphics aren't going to be programmers, and that after a certain point it is all artist work (no more programming), it actually doesn't do much to hurt the game, per se. Naturally some companies, as in the film industry, spend more time on fluff than on substance. This isn't always the case, and it needn't and won't occur here. Unless you are saying you somehow think the Civ team is going to suddenly be focused on graphics to the detriment of everything else? |
Well, if you are focused on implimenting special zoom options or special kinds of views or other things like that, it does take programming to impliment them in the game - it's not as though every new graphical addition simply has to be made and that's the end of it.
quote:
Anyhow, as I said, there is going to a certain amount of work put forth into graphics. They are going to be 3D. Now I am sure the Dev-team understands we don't want the best graphics in the world, indeed, I am sure they understand the substance is of primary importance in order to get good sales. As such, there are going to be a *limited* amount of resources put forth into graphics, and the Dev-team might appreciate some idea of where the fans would like to see that focused on. "Don't spend time on graphics beyond Civ-1 levels" isn't helpful. What will be found helpful is something like "focus on terrain more than Leader-heads" or "wonder movies more units."
Personally I think the Wonder Movies should be nice and entertaining, but since Units and terrain are going to be around the whole game, I'd like more time spent on them. The Civ2 movies were great, and I don't think anything much beyond that really needs to be done (beyond updated graphics). |
I agree.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Trip
|
|
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brent
Graphics to concentrate on: opening movies, wonder movies, victory movies, advisors
Graphics not to concentrate on: unit animation, terrain, CG leaderheads |
I disagree 100%.
Opening movies you see once or twice, and every other time you either skip through it or you tweak the ini file to never see it at all. A complete waste of resources.
Wonder movies... la dee da. I would rather the terrain and units be brilliant, as that's what I'm staring at 95% of the game, not the wonder movies.
Victory movies - same as before - few people ever win games and fewer ever play games to completion on a consistant basis. Don't waste time and resources on something that 25% of players see and 5% of players see regularly at the END of every game.
Advisors - why are these so important over units and terrain? The advisors are useless anyways, I have no need to stare at them as well
Terrain and Units - come on... that's what you spend most of the game looking at! That should be a priority over the opening movie and victory movies...
Leaderheads - while I agree an excessive amount of time shouldn't be spent, it would be nice if they actually looked like real people and made you feel like you were dealing with real nations.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Max Sinister
|
|
I think a good video for the end should be included, that people who play the game 'til the end don't get the "I played through 6000 years of Civilization and all I got was a lousy 'You won' message" feeling.
@Urban Ranger: Wouldn't you prefer to play Biing! (does anyone here know that this game once existed?)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
How many discs will Civ 4 come on?
The novelty of having movies is lost if you have to discswap to see them.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
Is there a concise pro/con argument to having movies?
PRO:
Looks good
CONS:
Less space on the disc for other graphics, the game engine, music, AI scripts, etc.
Only seen at certain intervals.
ANNOYING to be disrupted from the flow of a good 0wning binge
...
Cons > Pro
No movies.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
Well, if they have two discs, they could stick the engine and game graphics on one disc (which is fully installed), and then you play the movies and fluff off the other disc, which is the play disc.
There's a huge amount of room.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
Well, as long as there's a menu option to 'ignore cinematics'.
God I hate being prompted to switch CDs in the middle of an 0wning binge. >_<;;
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Well, as long as there's a menu option to 'ignore cinematics'.
God I hate being prompted to switch CDs in the middle of an 0wning binge. >_<;; |
That's why you'd place all the non-installed stuff on one disc. You won't have to switch since you just use the non-installed stuff disc. Of course, you'd have the option to install both.
Anyhow, the games these days can do a lot with only one CD, and I am sure they'll be able to cram everything onto one disc.
Hopefully ciV will use a DVD though.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Enigma_Nova
|
|
By the time it comes out, everything will use a DVD.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
30-06-2004 04:38
|